Kicking tyres on a boat decision

[SimonMW]

The story so far...
A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away....
It is a dark time for the the purchaser of a Dagger Juice 6.9. Although the Juice has had new outfitting, Leg pain and pins and needles have driven the kayaker from enjoying the river in it and pursued him across the galaxy.
Evading the dreaded dead leg issue, a group of freedom fighters led by Joules and Shanclan has established a new list of possible replacements on the remote water world of Worcestershire.

The evil lord Barclays Bank, obsessed with finding young Juice 6.9 Paddler, has dispatched thousands of remote probes into the far reaches of space…. For what purpose I have no idea other than the fact that I'm low on funds...

So umm yeah. I have tried absolutely everything to try and get that boat to work. I love the hull. I love the way the boat handles. But I am in absolute agony while paddling the thing!

So, after having sold my Mystic for such a low price that it only just covered the cost of the Juice, I need to look for a replacement. I'd like something similar to the Juice. There were multiple reasons for my pain with the Juice. Certain bits of outfitting were causing numb legs and pins and needles. When I took them all out I was left really loose fitting in the boat without pins and needles, but with an incredibly dull ache where the sides of the seat dug into the sides of my thighs.

Ideally I'd like a similar boat to replace it. Looking around the only similar type of thing I can find is a Pyranha I3. Anyone got any experiences of this who can compare to the Juice? And yeah, I know it's old skool.

[Scumbag_Scout]

Pain and pins and needles in a boat are sometimes caused by blocking venus return in your legs. Something worth trying is to raise the butt of the seat slightly to take pressure off your legs on the seat. And try adjusting your hip bads a bit.

Do your feet have any room at all?

[SimonMW]

Yeah, tried most things like that. The front of my legs aren't touching the seat, so it isn't pinching in that way. As I mentioned in the original post, I removed most of the other outfitting, including hip pads, and under thigh supports, and the pins and needles went away. I was left with a really painful ache in the sides of my legs, where the parts of the seat that normally have hip pads attached were digging in.

So even if I could isolate and sort out the pins and needles issue, I would still be left with that part of the seat digging in, which I can't modify without wrecking it.

[morsey]

You could try taking the entire seat out. Glueing two slabs of foam either side of the central stiffener and then glueing two blocks of foam either side of the boat to fill the space where the hip pads normally locate, and then stick a 'Mega' foam seat and hip pad set in place. That would give you a proper seat, would allow you to adjust the width and still have the security of the foam hip pads (on top of your hips-not pressing into your hips). You would not do any damage to the boat and all the original fixings would be kept uncut.

[SimonMW]

Its a possibility. Though I've spent so much time messing around with it only to find something else causes me problems. Plus making a seat means that it can't be adjusted easily once it is in place, so it would need to be bang on. The way things are I'll end up going through loads of expensive foam making a seat only to find I'm back to having pins and needles again.

[janet brown]

.... but you could buy a new boat,

only to find I'm back to having pins and needles again.

Janet

[SimonMW]

.... but you could buy a new boat,

Yes, which is why I asked what peoples experiences of the Pyranha I:3 were, as I'd like a similar type of boat to the Juice. I can't afford a brand new boat.

[TechnoEngineer]

Have you tried using Jackson Sweet Cheeks?

I took the hip pads out of my boats and put layers of self-adhesive foam in their place, with all corners cut out to keep it fairly smooth. With lots of Gaffer tape on top of them to hold them in place!

[minty]

I am sorry I don't have much useful to add on boat decision but don't use this post to advertise it on the for sale section or you may be getting offered no more than some magic beans. : )
I would add that any time I have tried to get into an I3 it feels like my thigh bones are going to break, I think that was due to the distance between seat and thigh support too close for me.

alick

[Kayak-Bloke]

Er how about a 7.1 Juice?

[Strad]

I love my juice and it's been fine - I just don't use the footrest. The flirt is kind of similar but the outfitting is a little more simplistic so I reckon you may have trouble - one thought might be keep the juice and try a happy seat?

Edit: Ooops I missed the bit were technoengineer suggested the sweet cheeks (are the sweet cheeks and happy seat the same thing??)

Edit 2: got off my lazy backside and searched myself - the sweet cheeks and happy seat are different things - both suggested to improve comfort - guess you may have to find a friendly shop and see if either are something that might help.

[nutterboy]

Er how about a 7.1 Juice?

I was thinking the same but the OPs budget may not allow for this

[SimonMW]

I was thinking the same but the OPs budget may not allow for this

Plus it would be far too big. I'm very slim, so it is all the more confusing that the seat in the 6.9 digs in at the sides (unless I have child bearing hips! ;-) ) I'm only just in the low 60kg's when kitted up, so the 7.1 would be far too floaty.

I could try the sweet cheeks, but the problem doesn't seem to be stemming from the bottom of the seat.

[morsey]

I'm thinking the change in knee position in the lower deck Juice, compared to your old boat, is forcing your knees quite wide, I'd also guess that you have set the seat forwards and are sitting towards the very rear of the seat, with the footrest set tight. If your knees are so wide that your hips are contacting the plastic on the side of the seat then a couple of 50mm foam pads to stop your knees (place the pads to contact your quad muscles not your knee caps) forcing so wide could be the cure. (plus lengthening the footrest, putting the seat back a notch and adjusting the thigh grips to the new position). Also have you got any foam on the footrest? If it is just plastic then it wil not be supporting your hole foot, putting pressure on leg muscles, and not providing any comfort or shock absorption.

Swapping to another lower front deck boat is unlikely to change the leg angle, so I'd deffo check the set up before swapping.

[morsey]

The Dagger hip pads, when you take out the foam pads inside, they are quite thin below the blobbly bit at the top. If you set them high so that the blobby bit is level with the top of the cockpit (a bit of gaffa around the cockpit lip and over the blobby bit keeps them high), you then sit underneath the pads, with room to squidge about on the seat, but the blobby bits keep contact with the top of your hips so you have the feel for edging and feel secure on the seat.

[Kayak-Bloke]

Simon,
Try a Jackson Fun. Not a world apart from a Juice and possibly the most comfy boat of all time. (Contmeplates new thread, "Most Comfy Boat of all Time")
I had a Juice before my Fun. Sold it due to back ache which was realted to a sports injury from years ago. So I can make the comparison.
There seems to be loads of Funs about for sale at the mo too.

When you next at CIWW?
You can always have a spin in mine.

Nige

[SimonMW]

I'm thinking the change in knee position in the lower deck Juice, compared to your old boat, is forcing your knees quite wide

Yes, they are going a lot wider than the Mini Mystic. Until Sunday I had some under thigh/knee support to stop them hitting the sides of the boat and to help engage the thigh braces, but I took them out as they seemed to have an effect on the leg issue too.

(plus lengthening the footrest, putting the seat back a notch and adjusting the thigh grips to the new position).

At the moment the footrest (or rather foam block that I made) isn't too tight, so I have room to relax my legs. The seat is currently one notch from the furthest back it can go as that was where I found the boat was nicest to paddle. If my legs get stretched too far, and hence the knees slightly lower, then the thigh braces are too high and won't engage.

Also have you got any foam on the footrest? If it is just plastic then it wil not be supporting your hole foot, putting pressure on leg muscles, and not providing any comfort or shock absorption.

At present it is a foam block. Still waiting for the guy I bought the boat off to send the footplate through the post (if he's reading this, please send it!!) Though I haven't added any heel support as that seems to prevent me from being able to easily relax my legs when needed. Seems to be catch 22!

Hmm, beginning to think that an outfitting course might be an idea for Simon Westgarth's symposiums!

When you next at CIWW?
You can always have a spin in mine.

That would be good. Not sure when I'll next be down there. I had considered this coming weekend, but depends if anyone wants to run a river, and of course whether I can bear to take my boat on one!

[daverice]

If your knees are so wide that your hips are contacting the plastic on the side of the seat then a couple of 50mm foam pads to stop your knees (place the pads to contact your quad muscles not your knee caps) forcing so wide could be the cure.

I was going to suggest the same. Very small changes can have a large effect sometimes. I'd also suggest that being comfortable in a boat is more important than being exactly in the manufacturer's weight range - you'll have a lot more fun in a boat that you're comfortable in.