Access Rights on Rivers

[S_roberts]

Hi Everyone,
I am a University Student currently writing a dissertation on the opinions of navigational rights and voluntary access agreements over rivers in England and am using forums for this research.
I would like to ask for your experiences and opinions on the success of voluntary access agreements which enable members of the public to navigate (canoe/kayak etc.) on rivers in England? I would also be interested in any suggested alternatives or improvements which you believe may work.
I am assuming if you reply to this thread that you are happy for me to use your response in my study, if you would not like to be included please say so in your post or send me a private message.
Thank you very much for any responses.

[Jon Wood]

I don't want to sound rude to a new group member, but have you put 'voluntary' and 'access' into the search function yet? It currently comes back with over 600 results. Then try 'VAA'. You get a few more.
I'm sure that many others will be happy to contribute and suggest other sources for research, such as the Canoe England Facebook page (I see you have found Song of the Paddle's access thread).
And thanks for the pointing out that you will publish replies unless asked not to, a courtesy previous academics failed to observe.
Good luck with your research-hopefully I will come back with something more useable later.

[morsey]

And the name of your University is?

[Adrian Cooper]

Stockport Academy Midlands?

[Big Henry]

A couple of threads on a couple of Facebook pages that I have argued my point of view about access on, and I think are open to the public to view (did that entire sentence make sense?):

North East Kayak Club FB Page replies to comment posted by Nicholas Ball on 21 March at 14:00

BCU North-East Coaching Forum FB page (previously called just BCU North East I think) posted by Alan Lilley (me) with full discussion on 19 February at 15:55

Make sure you click on "Everyone (Most recent)" near the top/centre to view all posts on the BCU page.

* If it is solely for your University dissertation then you can name me, but if it goes elsewhere, you cannot use my comments or name. Don't know if others who took part in the conversation/argument/thread want naming, though.

[Frogger]

Current law..I reckon the answer is ££. Peple pay for CIWW, HPP, Nene, for example so why not a few quid else where? Land owner's would be happy so no quibbles.

Say £2 for days access to a river like the Dart, I bet suddenly loads of land owners suddenly start talking access (and at the end of the day that's no more than anglers pay for the same access)

[Voodoo]

Current law..I reckon the answer is ££. Peple pay for CIWW, HPP, Nene, for example so why not a few quid else where? Land owner's would be happy so no quibbles.

Say £2 for days access to a river like the Dart, I bet suddenly loads of land owners suddenly start talking access (and at the end of the day that's no more than anglers pay for the same access)

Where do I start with this ...how about a simple No thanks!

[DaveBland]

Current law..I reckon the answer is ££. Peple pay for CIWW, HPP, Nene, for example so why not a few quid else where? Land owner's would be happy so no quibbles.

Say £2 for days access to a river like the Dart, I bet suddenly loads of land owners suddenly start talking access (and at the end of the day that's no more than anglers pay for the same access)

How about I pay my neighbour every time I walk up my driveway?

[TheKrikkitWars]

Hi Everyone,
I am a University Student currently writing a dissertation on the opinions of navigational rights and voluntary access agreements over rivers in England and am using forums for this research.
I would like to ask for your experiences and opinions on the success of voluntary access agreements which enable members of the public to navigate (canoe/kayak etc.) on rivers in England? I would also be interested in any suggested alternatives or improvements which you believe may work.
I am assuming if you reply to this thread that you are happy for me to use your response in my study, if you would not like to be included please say so in your post or send me a private message.
Thank you very much for any responses.

Can you explain more about the nature of your study, why you're doing it, what your hypothesis is etc.

You may or may not be aware but previous work on this topic from other academics has been a matter of controversy, if not outright annoyance as it essentially furthered the strange perception that the fruitless endevour of seeking VAA's was worthwhile, cost effective or indeed effective at all; Indeed it was suggested (though not being familiar with the river in question, I cannot affirm this) that the work that had been done had actually decreased the amount of access in one case...

Please forgive my cynicism... But I thought it was best to ask outright.

[Strad]

Current law..I reckon the answer is ££. Peple pay for CIWW, HPP, Nene, for example so why not a few quid else where? Land owner's would be happy so no quibbles.

Say £2 for days access to a river like the Dart, I bet suddenly loads of land owners suddenly start talking access (and at the end of the day that's no more than anglers pay for the same access)

frogger are you a stooge from some landowner or something, you've only been here a couple of days, but you don't appear to have views that are common to many of the users, to the point where things appear ill thought out from a kayakers perspective. For example, many times when I paddle I might pass by the land of multiple riparian owners - lets say 10 all of sudden in your view I would paying 10 times that £2, and that's without logistics to pay that money. You also ignore the most basic fact that we have the right to navigate rivers enshrined hundreds of years ago. What you are suggesting is akin to going on a ramblers forum and suggesting they pay £2 to each land owner as they walk along a foot path...

The majority of people I have met who think this a good idea are not kayakers...

[Frogger]

I'm not suggesting everywhere (and rights of navigation are limited). If landowners are happy to allow ACCESS for free all is good. However, if there was a small charge for ACCESS (ie put in & get out) it might encourage more landowners to agree ACCESS.

Once you're on a river there isn't an issue and landowners can go jump if they think otherwise IMO.

It worked on the Dee, why not elsewhere?

(and no, I don't fish. I don't have any affiliation with anglers. I'm just offering alternative suggestions to access rights which is what this thread asked for)

[Keith Day]

If landowners are happy to allow ACCESS ............

That's the precise point that you lost me Frogger! To be even more precise it was "allow"!!

[Jim_MWX]

Access Agreements don't work as they favour the non kayaking/landowner side much more favourably.

THAT SAID, if we just got on with each other more then the problem wouldn't be so acute.

See this for a film about access/info about access agreements.

http://www.twopercent.org.uk

[Big Henry]

I think what Frogger is suggesting refers to access TO the water and not ALONG the water. So would you pay to get across a farmer's fields to reach a stretch of brilliant grade 3/4 water if it means you don't have to paddle 3 miles of grade 1/2 that you would normally have to do to reach this water? I may actually consider that in certain circumstances.

[Voodoo]

It worked on the Dee, why not elsewhere?

What worked on the Dee, ???? (chousing your next words carefully I hope )

[Chris Bolton]

voluntary access agreements which enable members of the public to navigate

One of the many problems is that an agreement, by definition, applies to the people who have agreed it. You can't have an agreement with the public, so there is always a large number of people who are not party to the agreement and they are only bound by law. And the law is ambigous (search on here or for Rev Douglas Caffyn), so we end up with conflict.

If you want to know more about the recent history of access agreements, search for Brighton University and Neil Ravenscroft - a "Pilot Study" which "negotiated" access to rivers where there was already no objection to paddling and claimed it as an achievement. This also involved a "consultation" with paddlers - in which the output bore no relation to my recollection of discussions I and others had with the authors.

Chris

[Andrew Battye]

Access Agreements don't work as they favour the non kayaking/landowner side much more favourably.

THAT SAID, if we just got on with each other more then the problem wouldn't be so acute.

See this for a film about access/info about access agreements.

http://www.twopercent.org.uk

Just watched your film; it seems to reinforce the view that voluntary access agreements are needed to paddle a river and that its not possible to paddle a river that doesn't have an "agreement" or to paddle outside the terms of an "agreement", was this intentional?