Choosing me a playboat

[Yew]

Hey all, some of you might have seen my thread about the Molan Rapid (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=84421), which I kind of hijakked to try and get help with selecting a boat. However because Im still struggling, and I dont want to take the molan thread any more off topic (if that is possible)

Currently Im debating between two LL boats (well, these seem to be the main contenders)


Liquidlogic Biscuit - Im probably leaning towards this most at the minuite, It has good outfitting from the start, and seems to have good playing potential, but would be a bit better at river running/distance than some of the shorter playboats Great Ouutfiting

Liquidlogic Freeride - This is longer, and slicier (which is something that I seem to like in boats, a slicy stern adn front seems like it should make some tricks easier, however some others harder) it would be a better river runner, and faster for any distance flatwater paddling. However I hear it isnt as east to loop (although not impossible) Great outfitting

Minor contenders Big dog Kaos, There is one going cheap for my size in des mes, It looks to be a similar boat to the projects and old allstars, however Im not sure about the outfitting. Project x iThis is obviously a grest, boat, however I think its a bit more than Im prepared to pay. also I think I might struggle with it down whitewater, and for distance paddling

Any opinions on these boats, (or others) would be appreciated, as stated in the other thread, I cant really demo stuff, so I might end uo just sitting in boats in the shop, and seeing which one is the most comfortable

[kayakgirlz]

Why can't you demo stuff?

[slaughter950]

You kinda need to demo a play boat to get the right one. Even just to see how it sits in the water when you are in it! Don't just rely on the weight ranges on the websites because they are just an estimate. Get something with loads of connection too! I have spoke to a few people who say that they don't get enough connection in the bad ass outfitting with it being 'foamy', its probably just body shape though. Don't you know anyone who have play boats? Or you could take a trip to HPP or something and ask other boaters? Just banter on with them!

[Sickboy]

Theres plenty of places scattered around the country to get demos, all the concrete ditches have close at hand shops with good demo fleets, plus you have all the big kayak stores in more remote places that will sort you out.
I must say that Cardiff is the place to try a huge range very easily, the shops on the course, so it takes a couple of mins to swap between the boats, truly excellent service as well.

[BristolBob]

I hate to add to your list, but have you considered a Rockstar? I bought one a month or two ago and really never looked back.

[Yew]

The reason I can't demo anything at des mes/hop, is that I don't have a paddle (and can't take a club one). And also die to the weather means nobody else I the club wants to go down there.

I've paddled a few jacksons, and found the had too much bouyancy in the front for me

[4x4maddog]

Im sure if your looking to demo and buy a boat that Danny from des mes would be able to loan you a paddle too!

Its expensive if you get a boat that you dont get on with.

[Adrian Cooper]

The reason I can't demo anything at des mes/hop, is that I don't have a paddle (and can't take a club one).

So once you've bought this boat, how do you intend to propel it?

[morsey]

I've paddled a few jacksons, and found the had too much bouyancy in the front for me

Specifically was it on flat water that you found they had too much buoyancy? Did you try moving the seat forward?

If it was just on the flat, and you want it for playing on WW, then I would not be too worried about having too much bow buoyancy, on waves and holes having lots of volume up front gives you extra pop for loops and keeps you riding high and not bogged down in the pit of waves, where it is difficult to initiate moves.

[p.sanger]

The reason I can't demo anything at des mes/hop, is that I don't have a paddle (and can't take a club one).

Buy a decent paddle you get on with first? Because then you can paddle any boat and not need to worry about adapting to different paddles.

[TechnoEngineer]

The reason I can't demo anything at des mes/hop, is that I don't have a paddle (and can't take a club one).
I've paddled a few jacksons, and found the had too much bouyancy in the front for me

Don't you think that anyone who has demo boats probably also has paddles as well? It's not something I'd assume - just ask.

I also found the modern Jackson boats have too much volume at the front for doing the likes of plowing enders, however you'll probably find that doing moves such as the reverse double pump are very easy in them. I've found the Rockstar to be relatively easy to hold upright.

[Yew]

Has anyone paddled both the biscuit and the freeride? Do you have any thoughts on each boat?

[FriendlyTom]

Hi there, I noticed you had not included Dagger.
I would highly reccomend the Dagger Kingpin. Have a look on dagger.com/uk site.
I found it has nice slicey ends and a great "pop"
Gona see how it copes with CIWW this weekend, can't wait!
LL boats and Project X are good boats too.

[Mr Hoppy]

From the sounds of your posts I assume you are relatively new to paddling, my thoughts are on that basis. 1st off buy some decent blades, far more important IMHO than a boat.

I wouldn't bother buying new, the current crop of playboats won't offer you any significant benefit over a design a couple of years old during the beginning of your playboating development and could make things harder. A 2nd hand Dagger G-force/kingpin, older Jackson star, pyranha S6F will cost you a couple of hundred quid and in a couple of years time if you outgrow it's ability then you won't lose anything on a resale. They'll surf, spin, blunt, cartwheel and loop more than well enough and you'd then have enough for a decent river runner too so you don't have to compromise performance in either area.

Oh and the Biscuit is gash. Might be ok on a huge wave but other than that there are many, many better boats. I've not tried a freeride but unless it's worlds better than the CR series then you'd be better off looking at a Fun or Varun. Any of those will compromise your playboating. The slicey ends aren't that slicey compared to a playboat really.

Apologies if I've misjudged where you're at, in which case feel free to ignore the above.

Chris

[58panel]

Whats your views on a dagger agent mr hoppy ?

[Mr Hoppy]

Whats your views on a dagger agent mr hoppy ?

I've only had a little time in an agent and I didn't really fit the sizes properly. It felt a little disconnected to me , I actually prefer the kingpin, a little faster on the waves.

[Yew]

I think you got my situation right on there Hoppy, just starting into playboating, and finding that club boats... well cant.

Ive seen a Big Dog Kaos and a Riot astro going pretty cheap, could those be a good idea? (then get a nice paddle and some coaching?)

[Tom Drake]

Get one of the 2007-2009 star series boats. They can teach you everything and well! Or a molan.

If you get a compromise, that's just what it'll be. Things will be indefinitely trickier. I found my star is fine for river running and playing, in fact I could argue it made me a much better river runner than I would have become if I had a longer boat.

Proper playboats are the way forwards get one!

Tom :)

[Yew]

Yeah, Im prety much deided on a proper play boat now.

Ive been looking for a Classic allstar, however Ive been struggling to find one for an attractive price.(DM currently have a Project X at 700, so It would have to be less than that)

[Mr Hoppy]

The Astro is a very capable boat, the fittings can be a little marmite and Riots can be a little grabby on the edges (you need to concentrate). I've not paddled the Kaos but have tried the Havoc, the fittings are OK the hulls seemed to be fine, nothing too extreme, which is probably a good thing for you. Either will do all the moves that you are likely to be looking at being able to do, no they won't be quite as good at the top end freestyle stuff but for the next year or so they won't be the limiting factor. A bit of coaching would be no bad thing avoid getting into bad habits which you then need to unlearn.

The other thing is don't underestimate the impact in going from a club boat with basic padding to a boat that you've spent the time fitting to you.

[Yew]

Thanks, Im seriously Considering the Big dog now, Could you suggest any additions to the outfitting?

[Mr Hoppy]

Thanks, Im seriously Considering the Big dog now, Could you suggest any additions to the outfitting?

Minicell foam, sandpaper, contact adhesive and time.

[tom fyall]

You really should demo these boats before buying. I know it is a hassle, but if you're committing several hundred pounds you definitely want to get it right. Effectively, most of the mentioned boats are pretty good and it boils down to what you feel is right. Surely someone can lend you a paddle? Desperate measures used to have Demo Werners as well as demo boats.

[Yew]

Ive heared that dm are coming over to Lincoln in January. Seems like almost perfect timing for me to demo something :).

[banzer]

Yeah, Im prety much deided on a proper play boat now.

Ive been looking for a Classic allstar, however Ive been struggling to find one for an attractive price.

How much is an attractive price for a reasonable nick 2nd hand 2007 Allstar (which I wasn't thinking of selling, but would listen to offers)?

[Pete C.]

How much is an attractive price for a reasonable nick 2nd hand 2007 Allstar (which I wasn't thinking of selling, but would listen to offers)?

I got £400 for mine last month.

[jonh1140]

Hi there,

I paddle LL biscuit 55 and find it to be a fantastic boat. A big difference from the start is the amount of room you have for your legs - it's the comfiest playboat I have ever paddled!

I'm a pretty rubbish playboater, so my opinion on it's performance in this aspect might not be too reliable but I found that it's surprisingly easy to cartwheel given the amount of volume at the front. I have also found it really fast and forgiving whilst surfing a wave. The one problem I found with it playboating wise is that it is almost impossible to flat water tail squirt due to the lrge amount of volume and rounded edges at the back. (Though from a river running point of view, this is a massive advantage). It's also really easy to roll for a playboat.

The main thing I use my boat for is river running and for this I love it! I paddle this boat on rivers up to grade 4/4+ and I have found it to be nowhere near as tailsquirty as most other playboats or even some cross river playboats. It's also really easy to boof with. It's not as quick or as good at punching holes as a creek boat but I apart from this I can't fault it. Like any playboat though it does have a tendancy to punish poor technique if you get lazy! :)

The way I see it, if you're new to the sport you are unlikely to notice the subtle differences in playboating performance between all the top end boats. If I were you I would just see which ones fit you the best and then see what you can get cheapest second hand.

Hope this helps!

Jon

P.S. I haven't paddled the freeride before but I have paddled the kaos, I think I posted a review somewhere here a while back but basically it was a good boat but it was just way to small for me.

P.p.s. If you want to know cost my boat cost me £360 including a play boater spray deck but I think I got quite lucky with that deal! :)

[Lowri Davies]

I've said it many times before, but the right playboat will a massive difference to what you're able to do and how much fun you have playboating! The star range, projects are best then to a lesser extent molans and kingpins are good for starting off with.

My brother is selling his 07-09 Allstar if you want. I'll PM you his details.

[eeonz]

The one problem I found with it playboating wise is that it is almost impossible to flat water tail squirt due to the large amount of volume and rounded edges

I think that's the same with all the modern boats. I've seen it done in a rock star and a Molan though. I asked the paddler about it and he mentioned that it's more of a fast move now, than a gradual one like it was in the slicier boats.

[clarky999]

If you want a cheapo Project 52, drop me a pm, about to sell one.