Channel Islands^

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Re: Channel Islands

Postby Mark R » Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:54 pm

David A wrote:It looks as though the weather Gods looked favourably on you?


Of course I only had the camera out when the sun was shining and (more pertinently) when I wasn't paddling for my life.

We had strong winds in the first couple of days, making the crossing to Herm fairly lively, and the crossing to Sark the next day only slightly less so.

The 3.45-am-on-the-water shots should also tell you that we paddled when the wind forecast was favourable, rather than when was convenient to us...this was the crossing back from Alderney.
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Re: Channel Islands

Postby Mark R » Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:29 pm

Quick run through our trip before I forget it all...

Trip was decided on at short notice, what with Scotland (our originally planned destination) being bloody miles away and us suddenly realising that there were islands only 60-80 miles (a two hour ferry ride) from our house that we'd never visited. After a bit of web research, my personal priority was to visit Alderney...and indeed, in the event, I was not disappointed by the place...

Group was a few female friends, plus some token Welshmen who decided to ditch their planned Scottish trip and join us. Paddling ability and experience was mixed, but everyone coped fine with what proved to be some fairly serious paddling jaunts and some occasionally intimidating conditions.

Friday - everyone turned up at our place in Dorset and went to bed.

Saturday - several hours after going to bed, we all got up again and drove to the ferry terminal at Weymouth for the 6 am sailing. The Seacat whizzed us to St Peter Port on Guernsey, where we disembarked in wind and rain and (the first of many surreal not-quite-England experiences) had breakfast in a French-speaking boulangerie. We spent the morning sorting food and kit and deciding where/ when to launch (there is a good chandlery and kayak shop in Sampson). After a bit of research, we turned up at the Beaucette Marina at the north tip of the island (a flooded quarry with a channel blasted through to the sea) and enquired about parking and launching. Despite the fact that the place was filled with chic superyachts, they invited us to go ahead and use the place as we pleased, free of charge. So...we launched late afternoon to cross to Herm Island. It's only a short crossing, but it involves strong tides and the wind was blowing a grim Force 5-6. We just about made it to Herm, where island staff met us and tractored our gear up the hill to the campsite. I returned from a walk to find my tent festooned with balloons...it was my 40th birthday, as if I needed reminding.

Sunday - We explored Herm in the morning, especially enjoying the Shell Beach. In the evening, we suited up and launched into a wet and windy sea for the trip to the island of Sark. We met Herm's puffins, then explored the reefs north of Herm before heading out into the open Sound. Somewhere in the middle of a lumpy tide race, we met something that might just have been a Pilot Whale...either way, we made it through the swell to Sark and landed in the splendid tiny harbour on the east coast. Sark is ringed by cliffs and has no natural shelter; the harbour is accessed through a tunnel in the cliffs. We sorted the kayaks whilst a couple of the group walked up on to the island to find the campsite, returning with a campsite owner and tractor; rather excellently, we and our gear were all lugged up to the campsite by clinging onto said tractor.

Monday - We went walking in the morning and in the evening paddled around Sark, an outstanding trip. There are lots of bird colonies, endless caves and tunnels, great little tidal rapids to play with. I really must go back and do it at high tide, it'd be an entirely new trip again.

Tuesday - The day dawned wet and foggy, yuck. We hid in cafes until the afternoon, when the sun came out again. A few of us then climbed down the cliffs to explore and swim the astonishing Gouliot Caves; these are a network of tunnels where continual rapid tide flows provide constant a plankton supply for an incredibly dense and diverse array of anemones, sponges etc. In the deeper darker tunnels, the walls were entirely covered by multi-coloured life, through the whole ten metre tide range.

Wednesday - The big open crossing to Alderney. We launched early, at 7.30 and headed north into the open sea. It wasn't exactly a dull crossing, as we experienced jumping dolphins, large ships across our path and a surprisingly large groundswell. When Alderney finally hove onto view, we tried to give the SW cliffs a wide berth on account of the swell and also because of Alderney's infamous tidal races. Unfortunately, heading a mile north to achieve this led us dangerously into a really strong N/NE-flowing current (not shown in any of our many atlases) that dragged us way off-course to the amazing stack of Ortac (which happened to be surrounded by enormous tidal races and reefs with huge waves breaking over them). We actually didn't mind too much as it was a fantastic location, populated by thousands of pairs of gannets; more importantly, we were able to steadily make headway against the flow and ferry glide a few miles to Burhou Island, fighting the NE flow all of this distance until we closed on Alderney. An amazing and exhilarating experience, but I suspect that if we'd been there a few days before (spring tides) then we'd have been on a one-way trip to the mid-English Channel. Of course we hit the shores of Alderney rather late, so had to struggle along the coast against the tide which had just turned. Just when we thought it was finally over, waves started surging over the 10 metre high harbour breakwater which we were paddling perilously close to, and refracting back at us. Jaysus! The good news was that our landing spot was a perfectly sheltered sandy beach with the campsite just behind. Our final tally was eight hours on the water and 25 miles covered, Gawd knows how many more miles covered fighting Alderney's epic tidal flows. Everyone in the group apparently loved the day, clearly they all lack imagination...

Thursday - Unsurprisingly, many of the group wanted a rest! A few of us paddled down to the amazing Les Etacs, a series of serrated stacks at Alderney's SW; this is another gannet colony and I'll let the photos do the talking there. The rest of the day was spent walking and exploring Alderney, a remarkable island. Every single inch of the coast is covered by ludicrously overbearing fortifications from down the ages, with the most recent and ubiquitous built by the Germans (or more strictly speaking, by Russian slave workers worked to death by the Nazis - even the campsite was formerly a concentration camp). The town of St Annes looks French and indeed France is usually in view, just eight miles away. I had no idea that there were places like this in the UK, a visit is highly recommended if you are happy with the challenging tides.

Whilst enjoying dinner at the campsite in the evening, we were rather surprised to find that the weather forecast had changed, suggesting that our safest 'window' to paddle back to Guernsey would now be at 3.45 am the next morning...yes, just a few hours hence. This was disappointing, as there was much more to see and do around Alderney, and I'd had my eye on a paddle to the remote Casquets Lighthouse the next day. A couple of group members had to return from the pub and sober up quickly!

Friday - The alarm went off at 2 am and as forecast, conditions had become perfect (changing from stiff Force 5 to light breezes) in the few hours we had managed to sleep. We loaded and launched under starlight, and paddled past groups of puffins through Alderney's tide races, half asleep in the pre-dawn gloom. The sun eventually rose behind Alderney (quite a sight) and we paddled on in dead calm conditions. This crossing was simpler (straight down the tide) and much quicker, we arrived at Beaucette Marina at 9.15 am after 22 miles and 5.5 hours on the water. The yachties and Marina staff whom we met (just out of bed) were impressed by our mornings' work! We put up tents on the heathland behind the marina and dozed off for much of the day. The marina staff were happy for us to camp on their land overnight, and even let us use their plush showers and toilet facilities.

Saturday - Our last day saw us paddling Guernsey's southern coast from St Peter Port to Hanois Lighthouse. This was a spectacular section of cliffs and caves, made all the more impressive by the waves humping into them. Yet another fantastic sea paddle in the Channel Islands, and once more very different from everything we'd done before; the variety is phenomenal! Our ferry home was irritatingly delayed (ash cloud?) and we finally made it back to our front door at 2 am Sunday morning, to sleep like the dead.
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Re: Channel Islands

Postby delphinidae » Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:52 pm

Did your many atlases include this one?

The tidal flow along on the N/NW facing side of Alderney (especially between Burhou and Alderney) is significantly faster than that on the S/SE facing side. There's a stream of relatively slower moving water between the island and the main race (of Alderney) on the S/SE facing side, but presumably that wasn't an option due to the swell and the wind?
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Re: Channel Islands

Postby Mark R » Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:03 pm

Oops, significant typing error in my post - I meant to say that there was a seriously strong N/NW flow, not a N/NE one. Obviously I realise that the tide is meant to flow NE...

It was rather surprising to find ourselves being dragged away from Alderney and towards a huge area of breaking races. This flow was maintained all the way between Ortac and Burhou.
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Re: Channel Islands

Postby geoffm » Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:47 pm

Brilliant Mark!

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Re: Channel Islands

Postby delphinidae » Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:33 am

Oops, I forgot to add the brilliant bit. Nice to see some photos from a location that is on my wishlist and not that far from me which haven't been downsized and re-sampled/compressed to the point of uselessness.

The NW thing is odd though. I can see how water meeting resistance at Burhou and the undersea ridge which it, Alderney, Ortac, and the Casquets all sit on might shunt you so far north/onto the NW facing side of Burhou so that you miss the eddies at the NE tip of Alderney and end up in the Channel, but being pushed westwards must have felt bloody weird.
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Re: Channel Islands

Postby Mark R » Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:14 pm

I can't really explain the Ortac tidal thing, it didn't make sense at the time either - but it was very real indeed.

Time ran out on us, but I had half-hoped to return to this area and explore further after the swell had faded somewhat, in particular trying to see if I could get 3 miles further out to the Casquets ...

Image

They really do look out on a limb, some good timing and frantic ferrying would be needed to reach them.
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Re: Channel Islands

Postby chrism » Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:19 pm

What sort of speed are those tidal races running at do you think then. Mark?
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Re: Channel Islands

Postby Mark R » Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:27 pm

Our group could outpaddle them with head down, so no more than 3-4 mph average...this was halfway between springs and neaps, late in the tide.

More impressive to me was the volume/scale of the tidal action around Alderney - there is simply an awful lot going on, boils and eddylines all over the place, extending miles out to sea.
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Re: Channel Islands

Postby journeyman » Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:58 am

Image
Tide stream around Alderney
The 1906 book, The Channel Pilot states -
Between Ortac, Verte Tête and Burhou Island, are scattered many dangerous rocks, and ledges among which the streams run with great velocity.


Cut into ribbons or crushed into powder, what would your choice be sir? . . .

...on the port bow arose, standing stark, cut out on the background of mist, a tall opaque mass, vertical, right-angled, a tower of the abyss. It was the Ortac rock. The Ortac, all of a piece, rises up in a straight line to eighty feet above the angry beating of the waves... An immovable cliff, it plunges its rectilinear planes apeak into the numberless serpentine coils of the sea. At night it stands an enormous block, resting on the folds of a huge black sheet. In time of storm it awaits the stroke of the axe which is 'the thunderclap'...

To be wrecked on the Casquets is to be cut into ribbons; to strike on the Ortac is to be crushed into powder... On a straight frontage, such of that of the Ortac, neither the wave nor the cannon ball can ricochet... if the wave carries the vessel on the rock she breaks on it, and is lost...
Victor Hugo


Image
Paddling past Ortac - quickly
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Re: Channel Islands

Postby Mark R » Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:56 pm

Awesome photo, Eurion - I didn't manage to get any of the breaking waves in mine.

I like the Hugo quote too - where did you find it?
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Re: Channel Islands

Postby Chris Bolton » Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:47 pm

Very impressive, Mark. I find 8 mile crossings on reasonably calm water quite intimidating, let alone 25 miles on tide races. Just thinking about your NW tide...If you left at 7:30 and had 8hrs on the water then you must have landed at 15:30, which according to my calculation (2nd June?) was just about bang on HW Dover. So 90 min before that the tide would have been somewhere in transition between the bottom right (Dover -2) and top left (Dover -1) windows on journeyman's atlas.

At Dover -2 it's starting to edge towards North, at Dover -1 its going West, so it should have been NW for a chunk of time in between? At Dover -1 the tide to the SE of Alderney is going NW - so it's just a matter of how soon downstream the flow reforms? Or have I completely misunderstood where you were and when?

I've also found on the W Coast of Scotland that when you get into areas of strong tides, both the timing and the local direction of the stream can vary from the atlas, often depending on where you are on the springs and neaps.

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Re: Channel Islands

Postby Mark R » Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:06 pm

Not entirely sure I follow all of what you wrote, Chris - but nowhere on that atlas does it show a strong NW flow around Ortac. To be honest, I have to come clean and admit that you seem to have put more thought into that post than I did into the entire navigation...

There may well be logical explanations for why we ended up somewhere we weren't supposed to (apart from my crappy navigation and planning) but mainly, we were just too busy being wowed by the place to worry about figuring it all out...

Image

...this was the English Channel, can you believe it????
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Re: Channel Islands

Postby journeyman » Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:49 pm

Mark R wrote:I like the Hugo quote too - where did you find it?


Good old wiki - must be true.
We will have to return and find "the Oven"
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Re: Channel Islands

Postby Mark R » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:04 pm

On a Wiki-related theme, this is what was happening on the site of Alderney's campsite previous to its current use...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lager_Norderney

A team of archaelogists were conducting a geophysical survey whilst we were there.
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Re: Channel Islands

Postby Jim » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:06 am

Mark R wrote:Not entirely sure I follow all of what you wrote, Chris - but nowhere on that atlas does it show a strong NW flow around Ortac. To be honest, I have to come clean and admit that you seem to have put more thought into that post than I did into the entire navigation...


At several states of the tide it does show eddies in the vicinity of Orthanc, I mean Ortac - I'm going to avoid making my head hurt by trying to work out if any of these would cause the NW flow you experienced and just make some glib comment that eddies on charts are big enough to divert yachts or even ships and can be on a very different scale to river eddies.

The challenge to representing every minute detail on a tide stream atlas or in an almanac/pilot description for an area with complex tides is mammoth. Perhaps there is a reef in line with island causing water to pile up on the south east side and flow over the top to the NW whilst the main tide is running SW or NE, that covers a relatively small area on the diagram (although it seems massive at sea) that it isn't feasible to mark it up?

I suspect somehow that Chris' notion is on the money if his timings are right. You see the diagrams are snapshots, Dover -2 shows a stream running NE pas Ortac and the small islands to the NE, whilst Dover -1 shows streams running WNW? to the NE of the smaller islands, W to the N of Ortac and SW to SW of Ortac (the location that an arrow applies to is at it's tip which can make atlases a bit confusing at times). So if the tide turns progressively counterclockwise, it is more than possible that for a time (between Dover -2 and Dover -1) where the tide would be running NW off of Ortac. Crikey, I can see this more easily from the diagrams than I can explain it!

Now Chris' final point is that especially where tides are complex, the tidal atlases are drawn up as best as possible - I'm not sure if they use a mean tidal day, or an extreme tidal day or what, but it is entirely possible that due to the exact astronomical and meteorological conditions on the day, that those diagrams would have been more representative of Dover -3 and HW Dover - how can you incorporate such info into the atlas without making it completely unintelligible?

All of which is a good reason for your approach of not wasting too much time calculating tides but to learn to read the water and react to what actually seems to be happening. It's good to have a general idea, but you need to be flexible, and however you may belittle your navigational prowess you are probably doing enough on the paperwork to let you well developed 6th sense for what's going on fill in the rest for you.

My work hired a lovely 42 foot yacht a couple of months ago and charged me with navigating the Firth the Lorne with it (well, charged me with navigating, I chose the firth as the most practical trip for the tides). I have the admiralty tidal atlas, and the Imray/Martin Lawrence Pilot - 2 fantastic sources of information which at first glance completely contradict each other! Being responsible for the safe passage of a large an expensive yacht this was a bit worrying!
Lawrence mentions the tide turning progressively counterclockwise (or is it clockwise?) in the Firth of Lorne, saying what time it starts but not making it that clear that it starts at the Garvellachs (until you have read it a few times). He then goes on to not say how long it takes to turn, so looking at the tide stream atlas I seem to be looking at the tide continuing in the same direction for several hours after it is supposed to have turned. In fact after much thinking and confusion and checking times and stuff it occurs to me that actually the tide in the main fairway (NW of the Garvellachs) doesn't turn for 4 or 5 or maybe it was as many as 6 hours after it started turning just a few miles away, but in the meantime it has been turning all the way up the east side of the firth for 20 or 30 miles to the north, and then all the way back down the west side. Actually the pilot and atlas do not contradict each other, they just take a fair bit of interpreting! And of course the exact times of any direction change or eddy formation depend on forces of nature which are beyond our complete understanding (well we know how to understand them, we just don't have the computing power to do it - if only we were mice eh?).

Wow that's gone long! Nearly as long as your amazing trip. Oddly enough my head doesn't hurt because I followed Chris' explanation on the second read through :-)
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Re: Channel Islands

Postby Jim » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:08 am

Mark R wrote:On a Wiki-related theme, this is what was happening on the site of Alderney's campsite previous to its current use...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lager_Norderney

A team of archaelogists were conducting a geophysical survey whilst we were there.


One of the few British inventions we don't own up to.
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Re: Channel Islands

Postby Mark R » Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:35 am

Jim wrote:All of which is a good reason for your approach of not wasting too much time calculating tides but to learn to read the water and react to what actually seems to be happening. It's good to have a general idea, but you need to be flexible, and however you may belittle your navigational prowess you are probably doing enough on the paperwork to let you well developed 6th sense for what's going on fill in the rest for you.


Jim, actually I am not going to drag a bunch of randoms I've just met 20+ miles across strong tides on an ad hoc basis, I do have a vaguely competent idea of how to do this, with some experience thrown into the mix.

My point - which perhaps I didn't make clearly enough - is that I continue to be mystified about the culture of this forum and UK sea paddlers in general. Post up stories and pics of an astonishing UK environment and wildlife that is little known and an an unusual sea kayak adventure, with a vague comment included on the irregularity of local flows ... and lo and behold, guess which aspect gets lots of posts and queries? Perhaps I should just post up a photo of a skeg/GPS/VHF.
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Re: Channel Islands

Postby Jim » Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:45 am

Mark R wrote:
Jim wrote:All of which is a good reason for your approach of not wasting too much time calculating tides but to learn to read the water and react to what actually seems to be happening. It's good to have a general idea, but you need to be flexible, and however you may belittle your navigational prowess you are probably doing enough on the paperwork to let you well developed 6th sense for what's going on fill in the rest for you.


Jim, actually I am not going to drag a bunch of randoms I've just met 20+ miles across strong tides on an ad hoc basis, I do have a vaguely competent idea of how to do this, with some experience thrown into the mix.


That's pretty much what I was trying to say - you seem to have the right balance.

My dad on the other hand has been known to stick to his belief in his tidal calcs even when the evidence clearly shows the tide is going the opposite way. I wonder how many book learned navigators there are that fall into this trap?

I find tides interesting, more interesting than skegs.

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Re: Channel Islands

Postby TechnoEngineer » Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:42 am

Mark - if you check out the "number of views" for this topic, you'll see that this topic has lots of interest. I have enjoyed reading about the whole jaunt, from the initial ideas through to the final trip report, and appreciate the whole thing. I'm sure most others on the forum feel the same way. I had imagined that a trip around Sark would be great, and your report confirms it. I also find the tidal stuff interesting, so it's all good.
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Re: Channel Islands

Postby Mark R » Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:41 am

Yes, please accept my apologies; just having a grumpy morning...
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Re: Channel Islands

Postby delphinidae » Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:38 pm

Sorry for focusing on the tidal anomaly at the expense of everything else, probably because everything else is mostly familiar to me and I have a unhealthy interest in tidal stuff, especially stuff that doesn't seem to be on charts or in any atlases. Certainly nothing to do with rubber-necking or criticism.

Could you smell the gannet colonies before you saw them?
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Re: Channel Islands

Postby KevinM » Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:41 pm

As somebody who has spent over 40 years kayaking in Channel Island waters it is really encouraging to see the positive comments about paddling in our local waters. A number of us have tried to encourage people to visit the region with some success, for example we had 130 kayakers involved in the Jersey Sea Kayak Symposium, the same week that Mark was enjoying the pleasures of the northern isles. Generally though it seems that we are often ignored by visiting kayakers.
Jersey has some quality coastal waters but it is the offshore reefs which are particularly attractive. The remote Minquiers are to the south, whilst the really gem is the Ecrehous to the north east.
If Mark's pictures have whetted your appetite consider heading south for your next sea kayaking trip, you won't be disappointed.

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Re: Channel Islands

Postby Chris Bolton » Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:25 pm

Sorry Mark, I'll admit to being an engineer and thinking like one. So, I was impressed by your account of what you saw, but I didn't have anything useful to add - except "Wow" which (being an engineer) seems pointless. I tend to reply to posts where I think (rightly or wrongly) that I can add something - in this case, my interpretation of the tidal flow. Although the atlas never shows NW flow, it show N at Dover -2 and W at Dover -1 , so in between those times it must at some time go NW. But, being an engineer, I need to learn to write ordinary English - what I write only makes sense to other engineers (Jim's really an engineer, even though his job is titled as a sort of Architect). Nevertheless I am inspired to explore the rest of the Channel Islands, having only been to Jersey so far, provided I can avoid scaring myself with big tides.

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Re: Channel Islands

Postby Mark R » Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:41 pm

Chris Bolton wrote:Sorry Mark


delphinidae wrote:Sorry


No apology needed, as noted I was just being a grumpy prima donna and think I misread Jim's original meaning.


delphinidae wrote:Could you smell the gannet colonies before you saw them?


We're still trying to wash the odour out of our kit...
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Re: Channel Islands

Postby Mark R » Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:49 pm

KevinM wrote:consider heading south for your next sea kayaking trip, you won't be disappointed.


After the fantastic trip last week, Jersey's surrounding reefs and Isles Chausey are certainly next on the hitlist ... I also have a fantasy future reef/island-hopping trip in mind from St Malo to Cherbourg ...

I'm just slightly embarrassed that I've lived a few hours away for 15 years, and never seriously considered a visit as worthwhile.

I rate Sark and Alderney in particular as up there as 'must-do' classic UK trips on a par with Lundy, Anglesey etc.
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Re: Channel Islands

Postby delphinidae » Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:43 pm

Mark R wrote:I'm just slightly embarrassed that I've lived a few hours away for 15 years, and never seriously considered a visit as worthwhile


Perhaps you looked at Condor's prices and thought, "not worth it"?

Not really a dig at Condor, to be honest. I'd be suprised if they make excessive profits on the routes, but getting cars & boats down here is very expensive.
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Re: Channel Islands

Postby Mark R » Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:10 pm

delphinidae wrote:down here


Where are you based?
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Re: Channel Islands

Postby CCL » Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:18 am

but getting cars & boats down here is very expensive.


I thought that (with a very full car - thanks Mrs R!) the ferry crossing was pretty reasonable. If I remember rightly it worked out at £125 each which meant we had the use of Heather's car on Guernsey (including a clean t shirt saved up for the journey home as well as doing a supermarket shop on Guernsey, and being able to choose our start and end point for the Guernsey south coast paddle on the last day) with 4 boats on the roof and 4 of us in the car.

Compared to the cost of driving up to Scotland (we would NOT have managed 4 of us in one car for that journey), or flying to a foreign country and hiring a boat, the Condor ferry price didn't strike me as being especially expensive.....

On reflection, the whole week was so flippin marvellous that it feels like my £125 could not have been spent any better!!!

Of course, the cost would be greater if there were less of you travelling in one car.

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Re: Channel Islands

Postby Bod » Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:06 am

We paid £330 round trip to Jersey on the same Bank Holiday for 2 of us with car and boats from Poole. Given the quality of the paddling, the superb organisation of the Jersey Symposium, and the friendliness and enthusiasm of the Jersey Canoe Club members, it was well worth the money. Being tied to only 3 days was not good because there was so much more to do. I had not previously been to a Symposium and wasn't sure what to expect but it turned out great. Full marks to Kevin Mansell and his team for throwing a great event. Seeing the mention of a St Malo, xxx, Cherbourg trip, some of the French participants were saving on the ferry and were paddling both ways.

I haven't been to Sark for 30 years. Mark's pictures are exactly how I remember it, so hopefully not much has changed there either.
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