JJs - legal action allegedly continues

[chris leesmith]

I move that we all stop calling the site "jj's". It just gives them free advertising.

It has had a number of names in the past. Why not revert to Eddylines, Nomads, or even (for the old timers) Tombstones?

Its actually called Mile End Mill which has no reference to any current or past businesses that occupy the site. Although I do still like Nomads!

Cheers

Chris

[chris leesmith]

Nomads is the Landlords business of Salom boats and I think you have to be realy old skoll to remember it being called that :-)

Bugger I'm an old fart....

Also remeber when the shop was at the top

The shop will again be up the top soon! More space, roadside entrance, even our own toilets!

[Adrian Cooper]

Good news. How's your jaw Chris?

[Big Henry]

PEDANT ALERT!

Its actually called Mile End Mill which has no reference to any current or past businesses that occupy the site.

Surely this will be a reference to a company that milled something in the past?

[chris leesmith]

No comment.

Chris

[Adrian Cooper]

:-)

[forestknights]

You're a bad man Adrian.

I was disappointed to discover that a couple of friends of mine where still using the site and receiving coaching there.

I would urge coaches not to take clients to this location as you are seen to be supporting the business interests of jjs.

I cannot now book coaching with this coach with a clear concious.

[David Fairweather]

I don't see anything wrong with using the piece of water at Mile End Mill, I do that regularly, but have no intention whatsoever of using any of the the facilities provided by the Jayes.

As a piece of water, the Dee from Chain bridge to Mile end Mill is a great coaching venue, I would urge people not to let a couple of bullies prevent us from using this resource.

[HAZA]

I ran a beginners session at Nomads on Sunday, We all paid felt bullied in to it because we had kids with us and didn't want any confrontation, I felt bad but made full use of the changing room I have always paid when we are park n playing but not for river running but now I will not use the site unless I have to. Someone suggested that the Pub by Town falls is going to start charging paddlers to pass there balcony!! they wear only kidding but is this what the Js are doing!!!

[Crumble]

It has had a number of names in the past. Why not revert to Eddylines, Nomads, or even (for the old timers) Tombstones?

So my Dad's not going mad then. He referred to Serpents as Tombstones last year when telling me about his old time paddling fun.

I presumed he was confusing it with Graveyard!

[forestknights]

I don't see anything wrong with using the piece of water at Mile End Mill, I do that regularly, but have no intention whatsoever of using any of the the facilities provided by the Jayes.

As a piece of water, the Dee from Chain bridge to Mile end Mill is a great coaching venue, I would urge people not to let a couple of bullies prevent us from using this resource.

The difference is they used the facilities and paid the fee to White water active.

[davebrads]

It has had a number of names in the past. Why not revert to Eddylines, Nomads, or even (for the old timers) Tombstones?

So my Dad's not going mad then. He referred to Serpents as Tombstones last year when telling me about his old time paddling fun.

I presumed he was confusing it with Graveyard!

Serpent's Tail is the narrow gorge section about 400m below the Chain Bridge, Tombstones is the weir at the top of the Mile End Mill site, so called because it had a couple of large stones stood vertically in the middle of the fall with a narrow (about 2m ?) gap between them. It might be apochryphal, but someone is supposed to have been killed getting pinned on them. They were blow up some time ago to make the weir safer.

[quicky]

They were blow up some time ago to make the weir safer

Leaving two nice long metal spikes till they were removed...

[Bod]

It has had a number of names in the past. Why not revert to Eddylines, Nomads, or even (for the old timers) Tombstones?

So my Dad's not going mad then. He referred to Serpents as Tombstones last year when telling me about his old time paddling fun.

I presumed he was confusing it with Graveyard!

He's maybe getting a bit fuzzy!! Serpents was always Serpents and Tombstones was the top of the Nomad Site. The broken weir had a couple of pillars midstream that could pin long boats, The Tombstones. They were removed late '80s I think. They had real folklore about drownings but I don't know what was fact or fiction. As newby students we used to go hard left of far left of definitely not near the middle, although that was maybe an over-reaction.

Edit - must not get interrupted at work whilst typing replies! Funny how keen everybody is to show how old they are!!

[David Fairweather]

I don't see anything wrong with using the piece of water at Mile End Mill, I do that regularly, but have no intention whatsoever of using any of the the facilities provided by the Jayes.

As a piece of water, the Dee from Chain bridge to Mile end Mill is a great coaching venue, I would urge people not to let a couple of bullies prevent us from using this resource.

The difference is they used the facilities and paid the fee to White water active.

That's fair enough, I wouldn't use the facilities, or give the Jayes any of my money. However, that is very different from telling people not to use the location.

[Auto]

Bring back the days when Mike, Maggie and Fiona ran the site as well as the shop, Slaloms, good paddling and a great welcome. Many a summer evening spent sitting in the stoppers and playing the wave.

[davebrads]

Mike (Dalton) has strongly held views that paddlers should pay to use rivers, so even if he were still running the site, I am sure we would still be having confrontations right now. He may not be stupid enough to try to sue a young paddler, but it is more than likely that he has influenced Jim's thinking over the issue of raising revenue from the site. AFAIK He is still the landlord.

[Crumble]

I'm taking somebeginners down the dee on Sunday ... Where should we get on if not at JJ's?

[Summit to Sea]

d a

[davebrads]

I suspect the Dee will be rather high this weekend, so it might not be suitable for your beginners (depending upon how beginner they are). I've just checked the phone gauge and it was 11356 - equivalent to 9 on the gauge at Mile End Mill. Probably better to do the tour from Llangollen down - or go somewhere else.

[Voodoo]

The Dee is on a 14 at the moment and holding with tomorrows rain I would expect to be off the gauge

[Mark R]

I suppose that posting this sort of thing on the internet - say for hypothetical instance, in regular instalments over a protracted period of time - would be one way of establishing whether all of these unfortunate allegations have any substance to them.

I am very, very close to starting posting up letters.

They're great. Everyone will love them. They'll keep everyone entertained for months.

[chris leesmith]

I was disappointed to discover that a couple of friends of mine where still using the site and receiving coaching there.

I would urge coaches not to take clients to this location as you are seen to be supporting the business interests of jjs.

I cannot now book coaching with this coach with a clear concious.

Perhaps think about what your suggesting here. Mile End Mill is not owned or solely occupied by Whitewater Active, who you may have a beef with. Many coaches locally and nationally use the site as it is a great place to coach whitewater beginners and improvers and that includes companies in Llangollen like Pro Adventure, Plas Y Brenin, Plas Menai, Joint Services for adventurous training, CT, PGL and dozens of other organisations.

Already we at Paddleworks have seen a drop off in trade as paddlers feel they need to boycott the site rather than a company they may not feel comfortable dealing with.

We are taking positive steps by moving our shop upstairs in the building so we can have a roadside presence and entrance, much more space and the complete backing of our landlord. This will fall inline with what we hope will be huge improvements made to the site and facilities as a whole. Lots of exciting changes in the coming months....watch this space.

We at Paddleworks would like to see Mile End Mill return to happier times when it was a real hub for canoeing and generally a great place to spend time. We are certainly actively trying to make sure that we return to those times.

Incidentally this weekend the Dee is nice and chunky and well worth a visit. Please make sure that you drop into the shop when you are in the area and give paddlers and coaches an oppurtunity to decide for themselves whether they wish to use Mile End Mill without criticism or retribution.

Cheers

Chris

[husky]

Nice one Chris we have talked about this you know my view.
I still use Mile End Mill and spend my money in PW.
If you tell people they can not go there you are no better than the anti-access bigots.
Steve

[Nofio Mawr]

Incidentally this weekend the Dee is nice and chunky and well worth a visit. Please make sure that you drop into the shop when you are in the area and give paddlers and coaches an oppurtunity to decide for themselves whether they wish to use Mile End Mill without criticism or retribution.

Cheers

Chris

Yep, Cheers Chris

I would be there this weekend but I have no blades! (tounge in cheek)

[chris leesmith]

Sorry John

I would lend you my Double Diamonds but I know you don't get on with Werners.

Plus you might break those too (tongue in cheekier)

Chris

PS There on the way!

[Mark R]

Well then, how disappointing. As far as I'm aware there hasn't been a word from JJs (here or in private) either to dispute anything written here, or (assuming any of it were true) to resolve/back down/ offer compromise etc.

This is very disappointing, given that they claim to want to rebuild bridges with paddlers.

I personally draw the conclusion from their silence and inaction, that they feel no shame in what they are doing and have no objection to anyone hearing further details. Of which there are lots and lots.

So, here we go for starters ... who knows, there may be many, many more of these to follow ...









Presumably it's blindingly obvious to some, but please refrain from speculating as to the name I have blanked out.

[Sophie]

These are pretty disgusting actions. Presumably the Jayes' intention is to alienate all paddlers, otherwise this makes little sense. I would speculate that the income from kayakers has always been very low and had an adverse effect on the rafting at the site, hence his desire to dispose of us. Alienate the community and hopefully they'll never come back. To me this is the lowest form of intimidation. It makes you wary of revealing any personal details on the internet doesn't it...

[Wildswimmer Pete]

Mark,

Perhaps you could make those letters available to download as pdf's. Then we can print them out and put them to appropriate use.

Only problem is that inkjet ink could make black marks on a damp backside - just make sure Admiral Brown doesn't splash when he drops.

Pete

[naefearjustbeer]

It makes you wary of revealing any personal details on the internet doesn't it...

You don't need to reveal any details, Your IP address can be traced so even if you use an anonymous email address and a nonsense user name and reveal no identifying details. Someone somewhere will have the power to find out where you accessed the internet. If the powers that be get what they want it will be worse than big brother

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 882622.ece

Scary stuff if you ask me