Not Sure About This?

[Taran Tyla]

Heres a little gadget thats likely to spark some debate. I think in theory its not a bad Idea but likely to create bad technique?
http://bloyd-peshkin.blogspot.co.uk/201 ... lling.html

[Bod]

The Inland section have already given an opinion.

http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=90669

[zec01]

It looks very bulky but it made me think, as I said before I struggle to roll because of my disability, legs are very weak and hips are very stiff, not sure!
It would be a great device to help people with disabilities to get on the water, I just go for it but some people I know who are disabled don't kayak because of not physically being able to roll and once out a wet exit is not easy and yet their upper half is strong!

Interesting.

[skoobi]

It looks like a really good idea and like zec01 said it looks like a great device for people with disabilities but its going to take a lot of the fun out of kayaking and like Taran tyla said its more than likely to create a bad technique.
Id rather do it the wet way :)

[Kayaks'N'Beer]

Walking stick for paddlers with disabilities or training stabiliser for noobs. Can't see the harm but I'm sure the purists will disagree with me.

[PhilAyr]

Could you not do something similar with a good old paddle-float ? The question is though, would you want to ?

Phil

[Taran Tyla]

The Inland section have already given an opinion.

http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=90669

Yep, the fresh water junkies summed it up I think :S

It might have a little use in training but certainly not out at sea, can you imagine the wind drag. Might be fun to try one though?

[sleepybubble]

Its got industrial strength velcro.... just about sums it up really.

[Douglas Wilcox]

"Invention" they call it?


Pure plagiarism I say.

I want my royalties and I want them now.

Douglas :o(

[zec01]

That looks a lot less bulky Douglas!
I was also worried about fatigue, they say its very light but over time it is
bound to cause fatigue and also as mentioned it would be hard in a decent wind.

I figure that I will figure out a roll but it will probably take a lot longer
and also be a lot different to other rolls.

[PlymouthDamo]

I've promised two of my neighbours and one of my mates that I'd teach them how to roll. When I saw this thing on the Inland forum, I considered getting it as a teaching aid. I decided against it in the end, as I find that while you're learning, your roll is very hit and miss - even the tiniest change in your technique can put you back to square one. I'd be worried that once they learned with this thing, they'd fall apart if they tried it without.

That said, I've come across people who've been yakking for years and decided they can't roll and have given up. This thing could be just what they need.

[Kayaks'N'Beer]

Before I learned to roll I tried using a traditional paddle float. No bother - came up every time. Still couldn't roll without it, tho. I don't think it really helped at all.

[Graham T]

I tried to roll with a paddle float and found it hit or miss as it was not buoyant enough to put pressure on unless the roll was kind of right. This item look very different in that they show it to be buoyant enough to lever your self up no matter what.
I think it could have a use for people to have fun who are other wise nervous, and could even help with forward paddling technique if shaped like a beach ball Pm for where to send the royalty cheques

[Ceegee]

Personally I like the bit about “dragging your terrified girlfriend into the water”, seriously though, from a technical point it gives cause for concern as it reinforces a number of bad mistakes.

Because you need the buoyancy to be centred, you need both hands on the shaft, one either side. This means your shoulders are in line perpendicular to the water, which is a recipe for a failed roll (and potential shoulder damage) in a layback-roll and makes a forward finishing roll, where the loom plays no real part, virtually impossible.

What they seem to be attempting is a butterfly roll relying on buoyancy, and two handed at that, which is near impossible. Given a buoyant-enough paddle (e.g. a GP) you can do this single handed holding the paddle in the centre of the loom.

The forward finishing is like using an Avatak (hunting float) where the body curls forward and the head bows onto the deck, but here you can’t because of the paddle shaft is in the way – the float alone would be easier.

A paddle-float assist would have the buoyancy on the sweeping blade where it serves to assist.

Hand rolling with a paddle float the buoyancy is in-line with and an extension of your (sweeping) arm, effectively the same as holding this “aid” in the centre.

It would make a lot more sense and aid good technique if it was “dumbbell” shaped and held in the centre.

It amazes me the extremes that come out of the US – no middle ground in the country that gives us the Greenland revival and some of the world-best proponents of the sport on the one side, and at the same time, this gizmo, bolt-on sponsons and the “wave walker”™

[Taran Tyla]

Personally I like the bit about “dragging your terrified girlfriend into the water”™

No sexism there then :P I usually find women are much better at rolling.

[zec01]

I did think about this but have decided no because one of the reasons I enjoy being on the water is the fact that I appear tthe same as every one else, on land I am in the wheelchair and so I love the freedom and so I dont want to add something that separates me again

[ian.miller]

This looks to be a similar idea to the self inflating float that a German company tried selling a few years ago. It was sold on the basis that if you were a non roller then it would get you back up. In practise what happened was that most non rollers trying it lacked a decent hip flick and simply ended up lying on their sides hanging on to the float. To get back up you actualy needed rolling skills. The one advantage it did have was that they were at least able to breathe.
The paddle float would probably be more difficult to use, it would prevent using your paddle as brace while getting in and out of the boat and I hate to think what would happen in a wind. It also looks totally naff much like another failed idea from America. This was the breathing tube which was supposed to allow you to survive up to 10 minutes under water breathing air from inside your kayak. Aside from the fact that simple physics told you the thing couldn't possibly work the worst aspect of it was that you looked a real prat paddling around with this swan neck shaped breathing tube sticking up in front of your face all day. The simple approach is that if you need these gadgets you should be asking if you should be out there in the first place.

[Kayaks'N'Beer]

The simple approach is that if you need these gadgets you should be asking if you should be out there in the first place.

Whilst I agree with this for able bodied punters, there's a lot of people who are carrying some form of disability that prevents them being able to roll or brace properly. Sometimes gadgets like these might help these guys to get out on the water and maintain a bit of self sufficiency*. Kinda like a wheelchair, I guess - I'd slag an able bodied person off for using one but if your legs don't work then more power to ya.


* of course sometimes the gadget in question is just f-all use to anyone

[Strad]

It's a difficult call - anything that helps a disabled person get out and enjoy the water has to be good, on the other hand having played polo with / against BF I wouldn't have known he wasn't able bodied when he was on the water, if a device like this delays someone being able to reach their full potential then that surely is bad.

[ian.miller]

Absolutely agree that any gadget that can enable a disabled paddler is useful. However the point I was making is that these gadgets are sold as a quick fix to able bodied paddlers who are for some reason unable to develop the personal skills the gadget is meant to replace. Worst still is the fact that the gadget often does not work, gives a false sense of security and as in the case of the breathing tube can be downright dangerous.

[zec01]

I can brace okay but I lack that flick to roll properly, being on the water is so important to me as it gives me that goal to aim for, I spend 95% of my time laid up with pain that makes the mother-in-law seem pleasant.

I guess my advice to me would be dont kayak because its not totally safe tto do so but then so many people take part in adventures that put them at risk and if I did get killed whilst pursuing something that makes me feel so alive then it would be better than rotting away in front of the TV :-)

Not everyone would agree or understand but I miss the thrill that life can bring, I was a firefighter many years ago and now I am just living on painkillers and an expert on daytime TV, the reason I enjoy this forum is that I enjoy reading about your paddling trips and watching the videos people have taken, I hope to undertake a paddle which is now put back tto next year to raise some money for arthritis care and the RNLI, it wont be anything epic but it will be a case of pushing myself beyond what I should but then doesn't everyone?

[Kayaks'N'Beer]

Sounds like the safest option for you would be a paddling partner who knows how to scoop rescue. Just in case it all goes south, then there's no reason that has to be game over for you.

[zec01]

I dont have a problem with wet exit and I can with a fight re enter the cockpit, the risks are minimal but the same as every one else, there is a risk!
The problem with a paddling partner is that I can't plan ahead, if the tide is there and my pain levels are okay then I go within an hour

[dpround]

Zec, have you had a proper coach look at your roll? There are a lot of different ways to roll and it is usually possible to come up with something that works around a disability or weakness. A roll like a Pawlata gives a huge amount of leverage, so long as your arms do the right things then you will come up hip flick or no. It you have not got the flexibility to get the paddle to the surface to do a Pawlata, there are still options.

David

[zec01]

Im hopefully going to have a ssession with kurt from Nomad this year