How heavy is Ok for a new boat

[Kevin Brown 747]

I picked up a new sea kayak last December. It looked beautiful in the shop so I duly paid up and drove it home.

I've paddled it once, and it was hellishly heavy to load on the car. My paddling friend noticed I was much slower than usual in it. Out with the scales, 28.4 kg, whereas on the manufacturers website it says 26 kg for this boat. OK, it's a 9.3% difference. Is this something I should just live with or should I go back to the manufacturer and argue the case? I'm used to light boats anyway so it feels like a tank. Such a shame.

[maryinoxford]

Some manufacturers quote "hull weight," i.e. the stripped boat, having removed seat, footrests, rudder (if any), hatch covers etc. Check the manufacturer's wording carefully, to find out if you have a claim.

[Kevin Brown 747]

Thanks Mary, I've had a look and the manufacturer's website doesn't say exactly what will weight 26 kg. But there's not much scope to remove bits, no rudder, just hatch covers and deck lines..oh and a compass. What's odd to me is just how heavy this boat feels on the water when compared to say a 24 kg boat.

[TechnoEngineer]

When a boat weighs over 20kg, you will notice every 500g increment a lot more compared to, say, 15kg.

I really wouldn't make a fuss over 2kg; you can easily make more of a difference by losing 2kg of weight in yourself. Plus the boat will be a bit more stable, too!

[nickcrowhurst]

Three pals of mine in our village have recently bought "light" polyester glass sea kayaks, from three different well-known manufacturers. All three have shown unacceptable splits and cracks in the first few weeks of use, and warrantty claims proved useless. I have a heavy old NDK Romany. Decades old, and not a crack or split anywhere. The sea kayak buyer's old maxim: "Strong, light, cheap. Choose any two."
I would stick with a heavier layup.
Nick.

[allan09]

The sea kayak buyer's old maxim: "Strong, light, cheap. Choose any two."
I would stick with a heavier layup.
Nick.

I like that, could probably apply to many things in life. Ref boat weight ...its probably like the m/cycle world where often manufacturer quotes weight sans fluids - oil, coolant, petrol. Like you would ever use the bike without these?

[MikeB]

Well, one respected manufacturer states on their website: "Weights stated are approximations for our standard Diolen construction, excluding hatch covers."

Getting the weight spot on must be fairly hard - the majority of these craft are, after all, hand made products.

I somehow doubt that 2 kgs will make all that much difference in the grand scheme of things when it comes to performance on the water.

Early Nordkapps weren't especially light given they were the product of being laid up by hand before the days of vac bagging which is commonplace these days, and they are (still) regarded as "fast" boats. My Quest was a heavy beast, even in comparison to other Quests - mind you, it had a pump, compass and keel strip fitted. But so did others. Mike

[maryinoxford]

I somehow doubt that 2 kgs will make all that much difference in the grand scheme of things when it comes to performance on the water.

Agreed, but the problem is off-water handling. Car-top, portage, storage rack... Unless you can guarantee that you will always have a buddy along to help, you need to choose a boat that you can physically manage.

Mary

[Chris Bolton]

My paddling friend noticed I was much slower than usual in it

I'm sure 2kg extra weight in the boat would have no noticeable effect on speed - unless you believed it was doing so. So far as on the water is concerned, just forget about it. For off the water, lifting onto car, etc, it may make a difference, but I wouldn't consider trying to change it - unless you were prepared to splash out on a kevlar/carbon boat you might find the same happens again.

Chris

[No Kayak]

The last diolen Etain 17-7 I weighed was 29.5kg with hatch covers and poo-pod, 27kg without.

It's perfectly normal for composite boats to be +/- 5% of their stated weight.

[No Kayak]

Three pals of mine in our village have recently bought "light" polyester glass sea kayaks, from three different well-known manufacturers. All three have shown unacceptable splits and cracks in the first few weeks of use, and warrantty claims proved useless. I have a heavy old NDK Romany. Decades old, and not a crack or split anywhere. The sea kayak buyer's old maxim: "Strong, light, cheap. Choose any two."
I would stick with a heavier layup.
Nick.

That's true to a point- very little of anything is for free.

A strong kayak doesn't have to be NDK heavy, though. Most of the major manufacturers, on the whole, produce reasonable layups and boats that should do the job. The approach by P&H seems to be the most straightforward, without making any silly low-weight claims. Valley appear to have a disparity between the weight on the brochure and the weight on the boats, but the layups are basic and proven, Tiderace have moved between light to heavy and light again but with very high tech, if not slightly more expensive layups now whilst the Anglesey boys make either relatively light but maybe a touch fragile boats at Rockpool or bomb proof but not quite finished yet at NDK.

As always, you pays your money, you takes your choice.

Sadly, there is no 'JD Power' survey for sea kayak owners!!

[Jim]

You don't mention your deck finish - multiple colours requires a certain amount of overpainting (whether by brush or spray) and will add weight compared to the plain colour. Sparkles and glitter are metallic and can add a kg or so.

It's no wonder most manufacturers add small print about options affecting their specified weights.

If you just bought the showroom boat with no real idea what options it might have over and above the basic layup, you probably need to go back to basics and work out what it has different, because I doubt if all 9% is in the laminate (but it could be). If in doubt approach the manufacturer for information.

[Kevin Brown 747]

Thanks for all of the above. It's really reassuring and I'm just going to learn to live with it. Heavy is also strong, plus, the boat is an expedition boat so when laden 2 kg will be irrelevant. The boat is a Tiderace Xplore, red deck, white hull, no fancy graphics. I can't really afford to change it and the smaller Xplore S is by all accounts a different beast. So, I'll look at the boat in a new light this morning and learn to like it.

[surfkayaks.com]

winter manufactured boats are generally a bit heavier than summer ones!

[Jim]

Malcolm, are you saying you don't have a temperature controlled, de-humidified workshop? Oh no that's right, even when I was building expensive dinghies at the opposite end of the country we had no heating or aircon control either - the atmosphere in the shop can make a significant difference to the guys doing the job, never mind the consistency of the job they do, I was particularly bad in the summer, I don't do heat well!

Kevin, you may not realise but Aled is one of the manufacturers who uses these forums, you may be lucky enough to get an answer from the horses mouth.
If you looked up his website you will have realised that Malcolm (surfkayaks.com) is also a manufacturer, we have pretty good access to them here :-)

[MikeB]

As Tiderace are now made in what is billed as being one of the most advanced plastics manufacturing facilities in the world, in Thailand, I guess they might be able to knock out a fairly consistent product! Assuming of course that the op's boat is from the new facility and not one of the earlier Polish boats - were they heavier? Manufacturing went to Thailand in May 2010. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=63573&start=0

I'm surprised the op finds the boat heavy and slow - it'd be interesting to know what he's comparing it against? I paddled one for a day - it certainly didnt strike me as heavy - and although I was out alone, my impression was that it was easy to push through the water and had excellent glide. Some pals paddle the X varient and they are always up at the front, and that's in the company of some strong paddlers.

The XcapeX is billed at 28 kg iirc (in the "intro" layup") and it's featherlight in comparison to whatever the Quest weighed.

It'd be interesting to get Aled's input.

Mike

[johnb]

Tiderace also manufactured in Finland for a while. I think I have one of those.

[swagstaff]

I have a Made in Finland Xplore and it weighs in at 28kg inc hatch covers etc & I think you probably have one of these. It was advertised as being 28kgs. The one I have has been well used & probably abused but shows little sign of wear and its been in Sea Kayak Oban's hire fleet for almost 2yrs.
Only time will tell if the Thailand made boats 2kgs lighter will wear as well. The Necky Chatham series boats are made in the same factory and there are some of these in the hire fleet and kayak school that have had several 100 days use and still no obvious damage.

[Nick P]

I too have a Tiderace Xplore in 'classic' layup (Finnish built). Dunno what it weighs, but its definitely strong, especially rear deck behind the cockpit. I'll definitely trade some weight if it means a stronger boat.

Nick

[Kevin Brown 747]

Thanks, I PM'd Aled and had a really helpful and detailed reply straight away. He explained that the Xplore is an expedition boat and if it's a bit heavy then it will surely be strong. At 28.4 kg the boat is at the heavy end of the acceptable range of the manufacturers tolerance but still within it. I was also worried that the boat may also be on the big side for me (at 77kg) but Aled assures me that I'm fine for the boat and advised me to stick with it and not to try and change to an Xplore S which will be much livelier. I must say I'm hugely reassured and impressed to have such a response and am planning on taking the boat out from Croyde round to Lee Bay on Sunday. Hope it's lively and we get on all right. My previous boats have been a North Shore Mistral and an Inuk. The Mistral (precursor to the Atlantic LV) has always been surprisingly quick and is the boat my friend was saying would have been faster than her when we paddled together. I know this doesn't make sense as it has a shorter waterline but some boats just go well for their length. The Inuk is something else, doesn't try and carry loads of kit and doesn't belong in the comparison. My friend will be out on Sunday too, I have pushed the advantage that if in the Tiderace I'm slower then we'll now paddle together more easily. What will be interesting is how I feel with weight and volume in more challenging water in the new boat.