VHF RADIOS^

[John N]

I've just done my SRC and ready to get a VHF transceiver. We've been here before, I know, but the market moves fast and maybe an update is due. A lot was said about DSC and using the desktop models in the classroom it seemed very efficient at getting that first call out, either for an emergency or initial contact. You can now get (stateside only at present) the STANDARD HORIZON HX850S with GPS and DSC. The biggest drawback with it would seem to be battery life, about 7hrs with the GPS activated and (correct me if I'm wrong) the biggest benefit of DSC seemed to be transmitting your location from the GPS fix. I'm thinking this may be designed with the yottie abandoning ship market in mind rather than for our particular use. Has anybody used this set yet and would they care to comment on it's suitability. Does anyone know of similar sets about to come to market? And assuming I could end up buying a 'conventional ' set what's the current best buy / favourite?

[Wenley]

Hello John,

There are more benefits to DSC than giving a fix of your position: eg, trigering every other DSC set within range - very useful as ships are not required anymore to keep a constant watch on channel 16 -, arranging private routine digital calls to any station, prearranging messages and selecting the nature of the distress, avoiding squelch and the need to reiterate the call every two minute as the set does it for you, and more. It is truly a superior system. Uniden recently released a new DSC handheld set with GPS, the Mystic. It can switch between all USA, Canadian and international marine channels. The Standard Horizon does it as well if you hold the WX key.

You should bear in mind that the United States has different frequency assignments. Primarily, they use certain international duplex channels in simplex and for special purposes. There are also European channels not used in the United States. Besides, the EU has more stringent standards. Think to what amounts they went to set banana standards, and you will get an idea of what they can do to a marine VHF.

Actually, it seems that US sets cannot be registered or licensed in the EU without some serious modifications in the radio sets. I would also be interested in knowing when the new VHF/DSC are available.

[noops 160]

Hello John,

There are more benefits to DSC than giving a fix of your position: eg, trigerring every DSC set within range - very useful as ships are not required anymore to keep a constant watch on channel 16 -, arranging private routine digital calls to any station, prearranging messages and selecting the nature of the distress, avoiding squelch and the need to reiterate the call every two minute as the set does it for you, and more. It is truly a superior system. Uniden recently released a new DSC handheld set with GPS, the Mystic. It can switch between all USA and marine channels.

You should bear in mind that the United States has different frequency assignments. Primarily, they use certain international duplex channels in simplex and for special purposes. There are also european channels not used in the United States. Besides, the EU has more stringent standards. Think to what amounts they went to set banana standards, and you will get an idea of what they can do to a marine VHF.

Actually, it seems that US sets cannot be registered or licensed in the EU without some serious modifications in the radio sets. I would also be interested in knowing when the new VHF/DSC are available.

So whats the script with the Lowrance VHF and GPS combined for £199.99 available in the uk, as I'm about to do my VHF course ..I thought this could potentially be a way forward in comunication and location...?????

[Wenley]

noops wrote:

So whats the script with the Lowrance VHF and GPS combined for £199.99 available in the uk,

Hello,

It looks like a Vhf handheld with an in-built GPS but not DSC. Probably approved by MCA.

Let me now if I am wrong.

[John N]

Correct - on page 2 of the pdf manual it states ' DSC is not available in Europe'. From page 41 of the RYA guide 'It would be very unwise for a UK resident to purchase an american VHF radio in the USA for use in the UK; it would not be type approved and would be unable to recieve and transmit on many of the international channels. Lowrance does have a UK outlet but no UK / EU specific website.
I've just downloaded 3x PDF manuals (HX850; MYSTIC; LOWRANCE) 250 pages in all. Janet and John was never this heavy going. Lots of thinking to do.
Good luck with your course noops. Tips; read the RYA book thoroughly (several times if necessary) especially the pro-words. Having now completed the course I think the RYA G26 book (Syllabus and sample exam questions) would have been a worthwhile investment for me.

We already have one radio in our group (I'll be the 2nd), has anyone used walkie-talkies as a method of communicating between the front and back of a group? I'm expecting to be in fairly calm seas initially but as we get our sea group going and get used to one another we may find we have a straggler or two.

[John N]

UPDATE

I have just spoken to STANDARD HORIZON about the HX850 handheld DSC. A seemingly well informed person told me that they did not expect this set to be coming to the UK / EU for at least 12 months. This is because no type approval documentation has yet been drawn up by the EU for handheld DSC, so no manufacturer can test against it.
Other manufacturers (Lowrance was mentioned) are in the same position. Until the EU get the fingers out we won't be getting them.

ICOM man says that they've not got anything in the pipeline, but that ICOM (Japan) will be on the case just as soon as documentation is available. Interestingly, he says that currently hand held sets would have to be tested against the fixed sets documentation for EU use. This would require a 25w output to meet the 30 mile range demanded for that spec. At least it would keep your ear warm if you had to make a call.

(ICOM also indicated that they had been waiting a no. of years for EU documentation on an avionics product they wish to sell and can't see that coming anytime soon. Don't get your hopes up.)

[MikeB]

Very usefull - thanks - Mike

[Skerry Packer]

One that gets good write ups is the Entel HT640 submersible which is what I use and have no complaints with it.

[burpblade]

No wish to duplicate what's gone before in previous forums on this subject, but I have an HX850S here in the States that I'll be happily using when I come back to England in the summer. To perhaps answer John N's question - a few comments:
1. Unit is easily selectable from US to Canadian to "international" (that'll be us in the UK then) frequency settings through the unit's setup menu. No laptop jiggery-pockery req'd;
2. I've experienced battery life well in excess of the 7 hours mentioned above. 12+ in normal mode (er, I fell asleep without turning it off) where just lat and long is displayed (as opposed SOG and HDG - this may be what that figure refers to). This doesn't drain the battery as much as SOG display mode mode, and see manual for GPS sampling rates. Believe this = reason why. Besides, my Garmin is more useful as stand-alone a navaid.
3. It does have a tray you can load batteries into as a back up if the rechargeable battery pack does run out. See point 2.
4. The GPS fixing seems to be very robust, as does the unti itself. Mine's been clattered around a dive boat consol and drenched on my kayak, and all still good.
5. Somewhat bigger than many handheld VHFs on the market. Personally I find this advantageous as I'm prone to misplacing things, but worth considering nevertheless.
6. Standard Horizon have not paid me for this post.
Basically, I wanted a radio, and I looked around for a certain amount of "future proofing" before going for this handheld - just over $200 here :). I couldn't find anything available at the moment to match the features. Having thought about the way the "all station" DSC emergancy call works, this seemed to make sense as an addition to a blind call on #16, esp in areas with sketchy coverage.

[John N]

I have contacted OFCOM ref. DSC transportable VHF radio's. I did this because I found reference on thier site to just such a beast. As is the way with officialdom it was not absolutley clear so I fired of an e-mail. Here is their reply:-

Dear Mr Norris,



Thank you for your enquiry about hand portable VHF DSC equipment. The RYA advice is sound, as new hand portable DSC equipment may not be used under the UK ship radio licence. We acknowledge that it may be confusing to feature IR 2039 on our website and we have therefore arranged to have it removed to the archive.



The use of any radio must be in accordance with a licence issued by us, unless the use has been exempted from the need for a licence. Ship radio has not been exempted, so any use must be covered by a ship radio licence ("SRL"). Part of the SRL covers the apparatus that can be used. This states that operation of ship radio equipment may be allowed, if its operation conforms to a UK Interface Requirement ("IR"). Although the IR that you have found, IR 2039, appears to cover hand portable DSC equipment, it was published to cover legacy equipment, developed some years ago. Section 4 of IR 2039 states that



"Equipment that was manufactured or placed on the market after 4th September 2004 must fully comply with EU Commission Decision 2004/71/EC. The present Interface Requirement document will therefore not be valid for such equipment"



So, the IR and the procedures that we put in place to accompany it were to cover legacy equipment. New hand portable DSC apparatus may not be used under the ship radio licence as there is no IR to cover it.



I acknowledge that this reply will be paraphrased, quoted or reproduced on online kayaking fora



I hope that this is helpful

I have since spoken to the officer who forwarded the e-mail raising several concerns, but I'm afraid she is just an intermediary (albeit pleasant and helpful) between the untouchable tech. people and us on the outside. A further e-mail requesting information on when an IR will be written to cover our use is in the system now. I'll inform you when I know more.

[wavelength]

Hi,
Lowrance LHR-80 Handheld VHF/GPS Marine Radio from BT Marine-electronics. £199 (15% reduction if pre ordered)
I have checked that they are dsc enabled, and they certainly are. British importer is a kayaker and has so far answered questions promptly and been v helpful. Seems worth a try.
Wavelength

[John N]

It's not that you can't get these things over here, it's that OFCOM will not issue an MMSI no. to go with it because of the type approval requirement. I have written to OFCOM again asking when approval will be available and have also asked my MP to look into it. You may choose to do the same.

The Maritime & Coastguard Agency suggested looking at registering your kayak as a small ship (£25.00 for 5 years) and getting an MMSI no. that way - OFCOM is unlikely to ever know what you are calling on - but it's all unnecessary hoops to jump through. The MCA also asked me to forward the e-mail on to them in case they feel it's something that warrants thier attention - the chap I spoke to was certainly surprised that this equipment is available to many others around the world but not available for legal use here in the UK.

[John N]

I now have a further reply from OFCOM and also a little something from the MCA. Both will appear in a new post titled VHF / DSC update. I dont think I can take this any further, unless my MP manges to move things along a little.

[MikeB]

John's new thread is here.

Mike.

[noops 160]

It's not that you can't get these things over here, it's that OFCOM will not issue an MMSI no. to go with it because of the type approval requirement. I have written to OFCOM again asking when approval will be available and have also asked my MP to look into it. You may choose to do the same.

The Maritime & Coastguard Agency suggested looking at registering your kayak as a small ship (£25.00 for 5 years) and getting an MMSI no. that way - OFCOM is unlikely to ever know what you are calling on - but it's all unnecessary hoops to jump through. The MCA also asked me to forward the e-mail on to them in case they feel it's something that warrants thier attention - the chap I spoke to was certainly surprised that this equipment is available to many others around the world but not available for legal use here in the UK.

Having just completed my VHF coarse and passed the test yesterday , there was no information given regarding the handheld situation and DMDSS other than

SHIP PORTABLE LICANCE

A handheld VHF radio which is intended for use in a variety of craft is required to have a "Ship Portable Licence",which is FREE on line or £20.00 by post. This set will be issued with an international call sign which includes the letter "T" to donate that it will be transportable and licensed to an individual and not a vessel. A typical call sign would be MZD8T.

I'm going to try ?? to register my kayak as a small ship and see how I go.