GPS for Kayaks

[Derek Marshall]

Hi guys

I thought I would ask the experts about this !!

In my case, I am a marathon kayak paddler - which means I paddle for about 6-12 miles in one of those wobbly kayaks, with a rudder!

Most of my paddling is on lochs, canals and flattish rivers (the odd wave or stopper hitting my chest, but these are best avoided in these type of boats - the rain is more difficult to avoid!! ... and we won't mention the possibility of the odd short swim here or there)

What I am looking for, is to be able to track how far I have actually travelled in a given time

How do these things work? can they be set to take a reading at specific time intervals, say 60 seconds ish? or do you have to press a button to take a reading or recording?

Have any of you any thoughts?

Types, Models, Software, Hand held, Mounted, etc?

Looking forward to your comments.

[Erling]

I do not consider myself an expert, but I am very happy with the Garmin 60CS I have had for a year and a half now. I use it for trekking, driving, skiing, biking - and for kayaking. With this unit and the appropriate map software, I'll never get lost again. I use autorouting road/street maps for driving and for finding my way in the world's cities, and topographic maps for trekking and other outdoor activities. There's also sea charts for boating. The various maps are uploaded from the computer via the USB cable. I highly recommend the 60CS, but it does admittedly come at a price. In addition to the unit itself, you also need the electronic maps.

Any GPS unit I have come across will be able to tell you the distance travelled, so if this is what you intend to use it for there is no need for an expensive colour map plotter. To get started, you should be able to pick up, say, a used Garmin Vista or Etrex Yellow for a good price. For exercise purposes Garmin has come up with some wrist held units (the Foretrex and Forerunner models), one version also has a heart rate monitor. With these units you can even race against a virtual competitor (like your own personal best), and watch how far ahead or behind you are at any point.

You do not need to press anything to take readings, the satellites monitor your movements automatically once the unit is turned on, and a track log is stored in the unit – it is like making a bread crumb trail. If your GPS can communicate with your computer (not all can), track data can be downloaded into your map software for further analysis (distance, speed, elevation etc.)

Magellan is the other big name. I am not familiar with their offerings, but they have a good reputation.

[atakd]

Although sold as waterproof I wouldn't recommend an etrex for kayaking. Mine has failed twice though, to be fair to Garmin, they have replaced it FOC. It is not a marine unit and is tested only to submerge in 1 metre of static water (ipx7 standard), not to resist waves breaking over it. I have modified the battery compartment in mine with epoxy which seems to have stopped the problem of water ingress but a proper marine gps would be a better choice.

[Erling]

Good point. Mine is supposedly waterproof, but as it doesn't float I keep it in a clear plastic Aquapac bag when kayaking. Better safe than sorry.

I forgot this in my previous post: If you are into analyzing exercise data from your GPS, you should take a look at the Sportsim free software:
http://www.sportsim.com/web/index.php

[CHOWSH]

Try the forerunner as they are designed for training. I have the foretrex 101 which is similar witout all the training bits, I use it for walking and have also used it in the kayak occasionally. http://www.garmin.com/products/forerunner101/spec.html Waterproof for a swim or day out in the pouring rain, no case needed. £75 from Amazon.

[Gavin74]

This site is pretty good and the people on the phone seem to know what they're taking about.

http://www.heartratemonitor.co.uk/garmin_forerunner_301.htm

I use the garmin 301 for running, trekking & kayaking and it does all I need, it's small, gives location, speed, distance ran/paddled and all sorts of heart rate info.

[Jim]

As far as I know every unit can give you a read out of current speed, average speed, and if you have a course or goto set most can tell you the speed made good in the direction of it, and estimate the time left to reach it based on current speed.

Setting up the sampling interval seems to be a bit hit and miss - it's more like readings per second than readings every so many seconds, and most units have standard and battery save options, which basically means take the reading less often (but still very frequently). If you need something different to the running display choose a model that you can get a PC connection kit for. The GPS records tracks whilst it's operating and you can download these to the PC for further analysis - at this point you can choose the times or locations you want to measure between. I just use freeware software and paste the plain text output files into Excel but I dare say there is better software for analysing tracks?

JIM

[atakd]

www.memory-map.com lets you buy for £40, about 8 OS 1:50000 maps for a pc and connect a gps to plan and upload / download tracks which will show time and speed at any given point.

[jayno55]

I was paddling with someone at the weekend who used an etrex to measure speed over distance then forgot to switch it off before driving back to the clubhouse. When he came to check the thing it said he had paddled at 32.4 mph ...!

jayno
;-))

[JulesT]

Confession - that was I. Luckily I remembered the hight point of the journey; 8mph achieved on catching a windblown wave on Windermere. At the time we were probably getting somewhere between a force 4 to 5 tailwind. When we got out I was cold (dont have the proper cold weather gear yet) and did gymnastics getting changed in the car with the engine running and forgot about the GPS.

When you get a PC link to the GPS you can download your whole journey, hence you could readily edit out the last bit which was in the car. The sample rate in real time is approx 1 second. The storage of the 'breadcrumb trail' is something like one point per minute. This is from memory so dont count on it - Garmin info should confirm. The PC cable is on my Christmas list so will get to the bottom of it then. The unit will store trails from several journeys. I have the Etrex and use it in an Aquapack and can control the buttons through the pack so I'm quite pleased with it (cost ~99 quid). When you get a feel for your average speed it can show up interesting things that may not be immediately obvious like whether you have entered a tidal stream etc. And of course you can pre-program waypoints for your journey in advance. I reckon it would be prettty useful in fog when a traditional compass bearing would not give you the significant data that the GPS can - your absolute position and hence how to get to your destination regardless of how much you've been pushed off course by the elements. I would never rely on it as the one and only means of navigation but its another way of finding your way. If you visit D.Wilcox's journeys in the section under 'inspirational photography' he usally begins with a GPS trail superimposed over an OS map - a great way to illustrate your route. PS battery life is something to watch for, I get about 3 whole day journeys on 2 AA batteries. The smaller Gecko model has much less batt life. New and better models will be coming out all the time.

[Vole]

I have used a Garmin 12 for years, Use it in a clear "dry" bag. The dry bag was not so good :-(

I was trashed in the surf after a long paddle, that resulted in everything getting soaked.... that was 10 years ago, and the Garmin 12 still works a treat.

Very basic model, trackback, ave speed, max speed and that sort of thing, and still available on the market. No maps, but it did the trick for me.

[naefearjustbeer]

Heartily recomend any of the garmin range of GPS units as long as it has PC connection availlible. Also memory map as mentioned all ready. You can plan trips on the map and send them to your gps. When you get home you can upload your track and interogate the route you took. If you have the corrrect gps you can even monitor your heart rate through out your trip. You can see elevation,speed average speed etc, see the screen shot below for a walk I did earlyer in the year. Try www.globalpositioningsystems.co.uk they normally have good prices.

[Rockpool]

I've been studying the whole GPS thing for a bit now, but can't find information on how much memory is needed to hold UK maps and UK charts. The Garmin Map60CS has 56Mb of memory, the Garmin Map76CS has 115Mb of memory. Is 56Mb enough to hold all this data? Is 115Mb enough memory to hold all this data? Would I have to swap map and chart data about depending on where I'm going and what I do?

[Erling]

Others will be more familiar with the UK map situation, but I'd say you will have to swap maps. I notice that the Great Britain part of Garmin's CitySelect map requires 119 Mb space but I can't find comparable information regarding topo maps and BlueChart.
I don't find swapping map sets in my 60CS being very inconvenient, but it does admittedly take a bit of planning - where you are going, what kind of maps you need. And you are totally dependant of access to the computer containing the maps.

The good news is that there are strong rumours that Garmin will be launching new 60 and 76 models shortly, with SiRFStar III chipset and expandable memory, for just 10 pct price increase. I would hold on to my money a bit longer if I were you. Unless you want to buy a used 60CS in good condition, of course!

[naefearjustbeer]

I've been studying the whole GPS thing for a bit now, but can't find information on how much memory is needed to hold UK maps and UK charts. The Garmin Map60CS has 56Mb of memory, the Garmin Map76CS has 115Mb of memory. Is 56Mb enough to hold all this data? Is 115Mb enough memory to hold all this data? Would I have to swap map and chart data about depending on where I'm going and what I do?

I have the 60cs and it cannot hold the whole UK maps You would have to put the most relevant ones on that you require,

[Rockpool]

What about a Magellan eXplorist XL? How does it compare to a Garmin 60CS/76CS? I've studied the features of both makes, but there arn't many back to back comparisons out there on the www. Which is best in the real world?

[naefearjustbeer]

I would recomend garmin purely on the aftersales service. I personaly have never had to deal with them but I know people who have returned out of warranty units to garmin for repair and had, either a free repair, a reconditioned unit or a brand new unit for a much reduced price if the old unit has been beyond repair. If you want opinions about GPS units check out the www.geocaching.com forums and have a look in the uk section where a quick search will find lots of recomendations for what to get.

[gizmo]

I've had equally good service from Magellan. I dropped my Magellan GPS and smashed the glass screen. Contacted Field & Trek who sold it to me and they said they'd sort it out. They sent it of to Magellan and it was returned as good as new and free of charge.

[Erling]

I think that neither of the models will let you down, they are both great units made by reputable companies. My advice is that you shouldn't focus exclusively on the make, equally important is the software and maps. The maps are proprietary and non-interchangable between the makes, so take a look at the map options too before you buy. Even if coverage etc. is identical, they may display differently, have different functionality etc.

[Douglas Wilcox]

the Garmin Map76CS has 115Mb of memory. Is 56Mb enough to hold all this data? Is 115Mb enough memory to hold all this data? Would I have to swap map and chart data about depending on where I'm going and what I do?

Hello Aled, I got the GPSmap76cs last year, I am very pleased with it. I can get all the blue charts from Spurn head round to the Aran Isles into memory plus all the city select mapping from shetland down to a line between Bristol Channel and Southend.

Very pleased with it. Check when Garmin produce updates I just missed a free update to bluechart 7.0 from version 6.5 because I loaded the software on n26th Dec. If I had waited to 1st Jan I would have got the upgrade. However Blue charts dont change as much as road maps!

Look out for the blue chart tides and marine services, I think it is bundled with version 7.0 and above. you scrol to a wavy symbol on the chart and you can click it to get tide predictions for any date and even produce a tidal graph. Very nifty!

I also use it a lot in the car.

Enjoy your new gadget!

Douglas :o)

[Jim]

Look out for the blue chart tides and marine services, I think it is bundled with version 7.0 and above. you scrol to a wavy symbol on the chart and you can click it to get tide predictions for any date and even produce a tidal graph. Very nifty!

I also use it a lot in the car.

Taking that out of context could provide hours of entertainment!

Do you often need to know tidal flows whilst driving around? I've spent a lot of time as a car passenger around scotland and never felt the car being taken off course by tide streams........

JIM

[Douglas Wilcox]

Hello Jim I didn't really mean that... BUT........you clearly aren't getting out enough!
Douglas :o)

[Jim]

Touche!

JIM