Coching quals

[Mad_Erik]

Is UKCCL3 with adavnced water endorsement the same as old level 5? It sounds a bit poor in comparisum if it is.

Are they going to make another award that is higher than old level 5?

Trying to explain things to new people at the club is a nightmare. Is there a table somewhere that explains the higherarchy of coaches and the remits of each one. It is really weird that UKCCL3 coaches can be flat water coaches and bank based... and then a level 2 coach with 5 star could be coaching on grade 3/4 with an AWE.

Seriously confused!

[Jonny Kennedy]

This topic viewtopic.php?f=3&t=69699&sid=32e6f116075953c05560f94eeaeca14d#p509582 has lots of info to read, some confusing at first, but was helpful in the end.
Jonny

[DaveB]

The OP asks if UKCC level 3 plus AWE is equivalent to old style level 5. I think the question has to be enlarged to ask whether it is equivalent in terms of coaching and separately whether it is equivalent in terms of leadership. Two different concepts as posters on the forum frequently point out.

As I understand it the key skill as a level 3 Coach is the ability and knowledge to coach to a high standard and to plan and deliver a year long programme of training to a group of students in the particular discipline. Presumably this should invovle the level 3 in recieving more training in the caoching skills than the old level 5 would ahve received?
In terms of leadership I think the remit is broadly the same.

I know it is something of a tangent but I wonder how many people outside the competitive disciplines will aspire to actually become UKCC level 3 coaches?

One day there will be UKCC Level 4 and 5 qualifications as well I think. Which will be even more focused on coaching top level performance athletes

[Allenkayak]

What you have got to remember is that UKCC is an independent level of the Old BCU scheme. However the UKCC sets the same standard across all sports, i.e. a UKCC level 2 coach in rugby will coach to the same standard as one in canoeing, just different environments, equipment and purpose. When I did my UKCC rugby coaching qualification we were given examples of where qualifications stood at different levels amnd it went along the lines of

Level 1 - assistant coach at club rugby (i.e grass roots), may well lead an age group at youth rugby.

Level 2 - club coach for the adult team, but also assistant coach in a proffesional environment (i.e premier rugby)

Level 3 - head coach at club rugby, but also disapline coach at proffesional rugby (i.e. coaches the forwards or backs)

Level 4 - head coach for a premier rugby club (i.e Gloucester Rugby Club), of head coach for England youth / development squad

Level 5 - Head coach for the England Rugby team.

So based on the above, I doubt the BCU will ever go beyond UKCC level 3, as they would be dealing with a very small group of people (like single numbers).

Hopes this helps

[Mad_Erik]

Thanks guys! :-)

So does the fact that they have closed the Level 5 Training, mean that there will be an elete of old Level 5 coaches and young people coming up through the coaching system will never be able to gain an equivalent qualification?

This really affects peoples choices when looking for a course provider. The whole conversation at our club came about as a consequence of some beginners deciding which coach to go to for a course... old level 4 or a trainee UKCCL3 with MWE.

[DaveB]

From the CE website:
What about UKCC developments?
The BCU are planning to develop a new Level 4 Award for the recreational disciplines after candidates coming through UKCC Level 3 are ready to progress. The new Level 4 Award will aim to develop advanced coaching skills for use in advanced environments, in much the same way that the current Level 5 Coach Award does. Developments in this area are not likely to impact on our Coaches for the next couple of years, with the new Level 4 Award unlikely to surpass the current Level 5 for many years yet.
Coaches who are working in an advanced environment and wish to progress their coaching skills/qualification before the end of 2010 should look to the current Level 5 scheme for suitability.

[Adrian Cooper]

The use of the word 'surpass' seems strange in the context; maybe even amiguous. Are they saying that, having shut down entry to the old L5, they are not allowing anyone else to progress to this level for a couple of years? Sounds like restraint of trade to me.

[Mad_Erik]

The use of the word 'surpass' seems strange in the context; maybe even amiguous. Are they saying that, having shut down entry to the old L5, they are not allowing anyone else to progress to this level for a couple of years? Sounds like restraint of trade to me.

That is what I thought. It is a shame when clients are choosing an old level 5 as a provider over and above a UKCC schem coach who has progressed as far as the BCU will allow. Just cos 5 is a higher number than 3 so sounds better.

Sad for ambitious lads and lasses in the coaching schem who will not be able to progress.

[Tea Boy Tom]

I would say that the L5 and t and the UKCC L3 are different in context. Both contain an in depth level of content but look at different applications, in that the L3 is more slanted towards long term programming and development, whereas the L5 evolved to look at things in a more short term commercial context.
An award can only ever be a rough indicator of competence. I'm sure there will be some L3 Awe coaches (once they are assessed) who will offer a far better product than many L5s and yet there are some L5s who offer amazing coaching.
If folks in your club are looking for a coach, it's probably better to look for recommendations rather than just look at levels.