Is a CRB need for 4* Leadership to satisfy BCU?

[scottdog007]

I have a friend who insists the BCU have now changed the policy so that 4* leaders now have to have a CRB. Is this true as I can't find anything on the BCU website. Does anyone know who I need to contact at the BCU to ask this question?

I agree that it is wise to have a CRB if your are a leader. It is just that I hate being miss in formed.

[Mike A]

I agree that it is wise to have a CRB if your are a leader.

Could I ask why you think it would be wise?

[scottdog007]

I agree that it is wise to have a CRB if your are a leader.

Could I ask why you think it would be wise?

Could I ask why you think I should answer that?

Basically as a leader I could be running a trip with young people. If the group were all young people I think their parents would be pissed if I was a sex offender.

[Eliza Dolittle]

Canoe England Policy here http://www.canoe-england.org.uk/media/pdf/SPC-P4%20280909.pdf
If you are in a BCU affiliated Club in England or Wales it is not just coaches but any volunteer who works regularly or alone with children who needs one.
The complete list of safeguarding and protecting documents and policies is here http://www.canoe-england.org.uk/about/safeguarding-and-protecting-children-and-vulnerable-adults/resources/

[scottdog007]

Weird how the BCU state it because they are saying -
BCU UKCC (level 2 and above) coaches are required to undertake an appropriate disclosure.
So basically L1 coach doesn't need CRB. Nothing stated about Leaders. Sure an L1 coach is said to be working under the wing of a L2 coach. My L1 coach could still be on their own with a group on familiar waters
Then in another article they are saying Coaches and helpers working with children need CRB.

[Andy H]

Hi peter

I had to have a CRB check and im a commercial provider. I think all coaches need to do one now, as for 4 star I will look into it

Cheers Andy

[Jon Wood]

From the current WW 4 star syllabus (straight off the BCU website)

Following assessment 4 Star Leaders must have in place 3rd Party Liability cover (included in comprehensive Home Nation membership), knowledge of Child Protection guidelines and good practice including checks where necessary and maintain evidence of currency.

The same quote if you want 4 star Sea Kayak.

However if you are an open boater, or surfer, no mention of child protection.

[SarahJ]

I just did my assessment and there was no mention of it (I wasn't asked to show a certificate or anything...). And my last CRB check has expired.

[twopigs]

I just did my assessment and there was no mention of it (I wasn't asked to show a certificate or anything...). And my last CRB check has expired.

But have you got your 4* cert yet?

[Jon Wood]

And there was me thinking

The 4 Star Leader Award is a leadership award and not a coaching award.

So an adult who just wants to improve his/her skills and never work within a club situation, just go paddling with mates, has to comply with CRB checks, or paddle OC.

I recently received a PM saying "shambolic". Yup.

[twopigs]

And there was me thinking

The 4 Star Leader Award is a leadership award and not a coaching award.

So an adult who just wants to improve his/her skills and never work within a club situation, just go paddling with mates, has to comply with CRB checks, or paddle OC.

I recently received a PM saying "shambolic". Yup.

If you just want to improve your skills do the training and skip the assessment...... half-price! As for paddling OC, I was told by a Level 5 kayak coach that it was twice the boat, half the paddle and thus required four times the skill. :-D (He is now a BCU Level 3 OC coach!)

[Mad_Erik]

I thought it all hinged in the word 'apropriate'. A CRB check would only be 'appropriate' if someone wanted to lead young people or vulnrable adults. Thought it was similar for coaches.

[DanT]

Three points...

1) I happened to be talking to the BCU this afternoon about something completely different, but accidentally got the CRB Admin Assistant who is Joanne Simpson. Her direct dial is 0845 370 9529. (This info is also online here: http://www.canoe-england.org.uk/contacts or I wouldn't post phone numbers.) I'm sure she will answer your question regarding CRB for a 4* Leader.

2) CRB checks are free and easy. Is there any reason not to get one? People are talking like its the most arduous task known to man. I almost exclusively only coach adults (over 18s club) but have once been asked to help out a friend with her Brownies / Guides. I wouldn't have been able to if I hadn't got the CRB check done previously. Its a very easy box to tick, and might come in handy in the future for either a coach or a leader.

You need to call on the above number to get a form sent out, then get your Coaching Officer or whoever in your club to check your ID documents before you send the form back in to the BCU. The whole process takes about ten minutes.

3) CRB checks need to be done every three years. Mine expired but I didn't realise until sometime later when I stumbled on the fact accidentally- the BCU didn't flag it up. (If I was in contact with kids more regularly I guess it would have been picked up earlier by my club's hypothetical Child Protection Officer.) I don't quite understand if a CRB check is compulsory for a certain coach-level or leader-level, but my point is that just because the BCU don't ask for one eg at a four star assessment, doesn't mean its not available and something you might want to do anyway. Its free, easy, and might come in useful.

[misspaddler]

2) CRB checks are free and easy.

Really? according to the tinterweb...

Basic Disclosure £25
Standard Disclosure £26.00
Enhanced Disclosure £44.00

As far as I'm aware (and I've now completed 5 CRBs for various different organisations I've worked for) they're only free if youre employer pays the fee for you.

I have no problem with CRBs, and am happy to get them when needed but thought I'd point out the costs

[twopigs]

2) CRB checks are free and easy.

Really? according to the tinterweb...

Basic Disclosure £25
Standard Disclosure £26.00
Enhanced Disclosure £44.00

As far as I'm aware (and I've now completed 5 CRBs for various different organisations I've worked for) they're only free if youre employer pays the fee for you.

I have no problem with CRBs, and am happy to get them when needed but thought I'd point out the costs

Free for volunteers....

Not sure that Basic and Standard disclosures exist any more!

[jmmoxon]

From 6 April 2011, the following fee levels will apply throughout the remainder of 2011/12.
Enhanced CRB check £44.00 (previously £36)
Standard CRB check £26.00
ISA Adult First check £6.00

CRB Checks for volunteers will continue to be free of charge.

Why are the fees increasing?

The increase in the cost of an Enhanced CRB check is directly linked to the Government’s decision to scale back the Vetting and Barring Scheme to more common sense levels, which has resulted in the cancellation of the requirement to register with the VBS.

This fee increase will directly fund the administration costs of the retained elements of the Scheme, and is significantly lower than the intended registration fee of £64.

You can refuse to have a criminal record check carried out. If you have been asked to apply for a CRB check, and do not think this type of check is appropriate, contact one of the following before applying:
•Ministry of Justice (email address below)
•Nacro
•Apex
•Unlock

However, there are some jobs for which a CRB check is required by law. In that instance, if you refuse the check your employer won’t be able to take your job application any further.

If you have already completed a CRB application form at the request of your employer, and you don’t think this type of check is appropriate, you can contact the CRB on 0870 90 90 811 or by using the enquiry form.

ROA@justice.gsi.gov.uk

Mike

[TheKrikkitWars]

On the one hand, it's a no-brainer to do the CRB check if only to stop people making wild assumptions or inferences as to why you haven't done one... On the other, It's sad that it's reached a point where that thought process forces people to give the BCU a positive feedback loop with respect to the CRB check scheme; rather than putting it down to individual coaches or clubs to process CRB's on everyone who will work with children for extended periods of time or unsupervised (though my last Protecting Children and Vulnerable Adults course reccomended that: "adult coaches should never work unsupervised with children, in case an allegation is made it is best to have two adults at all times" [my emphasis]).

Child Protection has gone absolutely mad... The impression I've recieved is that it's not about preemptively or actively spotting abusers, but about covering everyone elses arses in the event that abuse comes to light.

Anyway, as a young man I've already made the descision that I don't really want to work with children or teenagers in a coaching enviroment, partially because the former generally try my patience; but mainly because I feel my motives will inevitably be questioned by someone, especially if it suits their cause to do so and frankly I don't need that shit... In time, but most likely only if I was to have children of my own (hopefully in the very dim and distant future) I might change my mind.

[Lancs_lad]

but mainly because I feel my motives will inevitably be questioned by someone, especially if it suits their cause to do so and frankly I don't need that shit

Really? Thats very cynical.

[TheKrikkitWars]

but mainly because I feel my motives will inevitably be questioned by someone, especially if it suits their cause to do so and frankly I don't need that shit

Really? Thats very cynical.

I can be extremely cynical, not least when it comes to other people.

[Chaucer]

Very interesting piece in the Daily Telegraph today about the costs of the CRB check.

If you knew that they had cost so far £1.5billion to the economy, with of course no proof (unless there is some statistical modelling) that a single child was still alive because of them then you might question their validity. On the other hand you might take the view that it was worth spending any amount of money in order to safeguard a single child in which case £1.5 billion might seem good value.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... trust.html

[Adrian Cooper]

Anyone who believes CRB checks are free is deluding themselves. As a tax payer, I am contributing to the cost of every check the BCU commissions despite it not being the employer for the majority of these.