Paddle flutter

[biketastik]

Dear infinite knowledge bank,

I currently paddle with carbon robson pogo's and occasionally when I hammer on the power I get paddle flutter, does anybody have any tips on how to correct this?

Thanks

[Adrian Cooper]

It's a function of the paddle design. You could correct it by altering the shape of the paddle or buy a paddle less prone to flutter.

Sorry, not that helpful but you've got to tell it like it is.

[Tom_Laws]

Get some Sugru and contruct a tiny spine down the power face, and on the back to offer a bit of stability. Or just buy different paddles. My Oracles were terribly fluttery when you gave a good yank.

[Adrian Cooper]

The old canoe handbook had some advice on paddle design and the raised spine seemed to be the main improvement to flutter. The old Werner Wenatchee had a highly dihedral power face but still suffered to some degree although at slow speeds. Maybe take Tom's advice and try out a few alternatives until it feels a bit better; then set up in business selling low flutter paddles. :-)

[Simon Westgarth]

Blades with a shapeless blade face, i.e. flat and thin blades, tend to flutter, and increasingly so when used with more demand. Solutions are to add some shape, such as a dihedral like Tom has suggested, or look for a blade with a slight spooned out shape and minor dihedral, such as Werner.

[David Fairweather]

Interestingly, I found that my old Werner glass blades (Powerhouse) used to flutter significantly when pulled past the hips. This didn't seem to happen with the carbon or foam core versions. The big dihedral on my current blades (Streamlyte Freeways) seems to work as they don't flutter at all. The foam core slalom-based designed that I've tried, such as Lettmans and Nomad slalom blades don't seem to flutter either.

So, it's not you, it's your paddle. Either ignore it, or get your wallet out....

[DaveBland]

You could stop going down the gym and working out. My feeble arms never generate any flutter.

[biketastik]

So there's nothing I can do about it unless I change its shape or change my blades... Well that sucks a bit... how about layering up duct tape and milk bottle plastic in the middle of the power face to create a ridge? cheaper than sugru...

[Simon Westgarth]

how about layering up duct tape and milk bottle plastic in the middle of the power face to create a ridge? cheaper than sugru...

That might work, have a go and report back if you like.

[purelandexpeditions.com]

I have just returned to carbon paddles from glass, Lightning Gradients, 200, So sam eblade shape and length just different construction. I find that the carbon paddles flutter slightly on the left blade if I use an elevated high angle stroke - but not the right - no super high angle stroke = no flutter = win.

[Gareth H]

Fluttering blades are normally due to the fact the dihedral isnt balanced with the spine, this makes the currents/flow/pressure on either side of the blade uneven and unstable which creates the Flutter. It can also flutter due to the blade being too wide. The progressive less aggressive dihedral design of say a Werner is a great all round user friendly design however it shows signs of flutter when under certain loads or when the blade is more flexi like the glass blades against the carbon blades. Your blades are both wide and from memory very little or no dihedral design which makes them more prone to flutter but with ok forward power. Its very difficult to get a really powerfull spoon like, designed blade that is also very smooth and good allround. Werner have had this pretty close for many years with very good build quality.

When we were designing the New Ophion Katana blade we wanted to get closer to this and believe we have achieved it. Our dihedral is both aggressive smooth and balanced, complimenting our foam filled spine. The blade is spoon like, very powerfull and cuts through the water like a Knife. We also managed to keep lots of stable power on the rear of the blade with the design.

Most blades on the market will flutter at some part of a stroke or have features unlike others due to there differing design and your differing paddling style and or the types of current you are paddling in.

Narrower blades give the least flutter! even when not balanced between dihedral and spine so for certain disciplines that require a fast stroke rate they can get away with deeper air/foam core on the rear of the blades. Its all a balancing act just like getting a kayak that carves really well but is really loose, its nearly always a compromise .

Thanks

Gareth

[Adrian Cooper]

Narrower blades give the least flutter!

You'd think! Try paddling kayak-style with canoe poles which are about 32mm across. They flutter like mad.

[grayspectre]

It is also a function of the reynolds number, where a high enough number produces flow around an object like this:




This video shows in exquisitely exciting form how flow around objects creates eddies behind them, and also why, at greater flow velocites [harder pulling on the blades], blades appear to flutter more.
Added into this idea is the idea that blades are never perpendicular to the 'flow' in moving water, and the blade itself is never placing a perfectly balanced force on both sides of the shaft at once, as it is never perfectly symmetrically placed in the water to begin with!

To be honest, I'm surprised that flutter isn't a thing that happens with every stroke.

GS

[DaveBland]

To be honest, I'm surprised that flutter isn't a thing that happens with every stroke.

You ain't pullin hard enough, love.

[Tom_Laws]

To be honest, I'm surprised that flutter isn't a thing that happens with every stroke.

You ain't pullin hard enough, love.

Or you have good stability in your arm/shoulder and overcome the flutter a bit. My favourite kind of flutter is the eyelashes.