Creekboats, a requirement or not?

[SimonMW]

I feel like a change of boat. Up until now I've had a creeker, but I think I'm looking for something more "all round". Though kayaking does seem to be quite specialised these days. I think that paddling a creek tub all the time might be holding my experience back. I'm not after a playboat though, and as my main general purpose boat I don't want it to be stern squirting me up vertical all the time either.

Thing is I think I want a boat with some rails. Something I can run most rivers with up to G4, but that won't be spongey and lifeless on G2. Something I can progress my kayaking in. But at the same time if I'm invited to go to the Upper Dart, a boat that won't get reactions such as "you're not going in THAT are you?!"

I had been looking into a Fluid Detox medium, but used ones seem rarer than hens teeth. I love the look of it though. Another option is a Fluid Spice medium. My only gripes are that it looks like a shoe and it is quite narrow (I like boats to look sleek, not like "kayak contraption objects"). Varun looks interesting, though is this closer to an outright playboat compared to the Spice?

I know some may tell me just to get a creeker and a playboat, but I can only afford one boat at the moment once I have sold my current one. I'll have to be buying used, so boats like the new Jackson Zen, great though it looks, are out.

Oh, and one last thing about choosing a boat. Arrrrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhh!

PS: I don't want a Burn or a Mamba. Everybody and their dog has one these days.

[Sickboy]

Axiom, Zone spring straight to mind, maybe a Jackson Fun, all capable of grade 4. Obviously you'll need to adjust your paddling style and this may take a little time depending on how lazy your creeker's made you.
Your doing the right thing though, you'll get technically better by giving the tubs a rest for a while.

[Ricks-Freestyle-Mind]

Dagger Axiom. Great boat. Bit of extra length means more forward thinking at times - try one!

[Big Henry]

PS: I don't want a Burn or a Mamba. Everybody and their dog has one these days.

Maybe there's a reason they are so popular? I wouldn't rule out boats so quickly until you've tried them - you may find you think one of them is the next best think to sliced bread.

[Mad_Erik]

PS: I don't want a Burn or a Mamba. Everybody and their dog has one these days.

Maybe there's a reason they are so popular? I wouldn't rule out boats so quickly until you've tried them - you may find you think one of them is the next best think to sliced bread.

I wouldn't call a Burn a creek boat anyway, more a river runner. I think of creek boats as big displacement hull beasts and Burns are far from that. Having said that you see a lot of Burns paddled very badly, some folks never find or use the rails.

As for whether or not a creek boat is 'a requirement'... I would say not in the UK. Do we have any 'creeks' in the UK? Burns etc are so popular in this country because they suit the water we have and give the average club paddler a good day out on G3/4 with a bit in reserve for the odd trip abroad on the more meaty creeky stuff.

[David Fairweather]

Clearly I'm going to tell you to get a small Z:one. If you get yourself up to North Wales anytime soon, I'll sort you out a demo from somewhere.

[66quinny66]

I've got a large Z One and I love it.

[mills82]

How much have you got to spend? Could you not buy older boats to get them cheaper? You can get 2 older boats for £500 or less and you look retro in them aswell

As for a creekboat for what I do I have no need for it everytime I take mine out I look at everybody else and think oh if only I had my allstar.

Alot of people have bad things to say about it but I loved my ammo although I did still get bored in it. I also regret selling my LL CR125

[SimonMW]

Clearly I'm going to tell you to get a small Z:one. If you get yourself up to North Wales anytime soon, I'll sort you out a demo from somewhere.

Z:one seems good. I actually paddled a medium when I did a day with Chris back when I first started paddling, but I didn't know enough about the intricacies of handling, hull differences etc to make a proper judgement. I'm appreciating things differently now. The Axiom seems pretty nice. The more I look into things, the more I agree with a friend of mine who thinks that you need three boats minimum.

[sprintpaddler]

Hi Simon,
Agree with the above about the Burn. You dismiss this boat at your peril!! Seriously it`s an incredible boat & since buying mine my paddling has improved vastly. Sure there are loads of great boats to choose from, but with those sharpe rails & wide flat bottom, I`ve found the handling of it like no other. There seem to be so much scope for improvement built into it, that it`s a joy to go out virtually every trip, & find another string to it `s bow. It really does inspire confidence. Please try one!
Another boat I would recommend is the Everest. It won`t turn like a Burn, ( or at least as easily ) but it`s a faster boat with perhaps better capabilities in the bigger drops, & a knowledgeable coach at our club swears by it as a top all-rounder.
I`ve no affiliation to Pyranha whatsoever.

Cheers,
Ted.

[Woods]

The Fluid Donsa the most fun you can have on everything up to Nomad territory.
Failing that; a Necky Rip (did you say hen's teeth?); Necky Jive 8'10" (much more common on the secondhand market); or a Dagger Axiom.

Pete

[Jim]

The Burn is bathtub, Glide all the way!

[Tea Boy Tom]

Q: Creekboats, a requirement or not? A: It depends. Given what you do at the moment, not really. As others have said, a Zone/Axiom style boat will be fine and great fun. I paddle a small Zone myself and it's excellent fun. However, with enough commitment and drive, 'creekboats' can be paddled in a very dynamic fasion.

[justin-g]

I have creeker and an Axiom - in the UK I pretty much always use the Axiom unless I'm paddling GD5 stuff and even then sometimes use my Axiom. It's awesome - but it's not a creek boat - it gets pinned easier and is harder to paddle in the steep stuff. But it's brillaint for your skills and is amazing in big water like step 1 dart - it's like paddling a aston martin to the Nomads VW passat.

J

[Tom_Laws]

Spent a summer running the Upper Dart, Mellte, Upper Tawe, Nedd Fechan etc in my Dagger RPM. An absolute hoot.

[SimonMW]

I have to say the Axiom is piquing my interest, along with the Z:one.

I hear the Axiom is difficult to boof, but I suppose that's a small compromise to make for the other capabilities. The Z:one though doesn't seem to have as much restriction from what I have seen of Dave going off ledges in one.

I'd always liked the look of the RPM, but it is full displacement, so the Axiom seems like a planing hulled version of that boat. One thing though regarding both the Z;one and the Axiom, is there enough room for any gear? Example if I wanted to put a DSLR in an Ocoee watershed bag?

[Tom_Laws]

I'd always liked the look of the RPM, but it is full displacement, so the Axiom seems like a planing hulled version of that boat. One thing though regarding both the Z;one and the Axiom, is there enough room for any gear? Example if I wanted to put a DSLR in an Ocoee watershed bag?

Pretty much - bit more footroom and a modern seating position.

The Axiom will take the smaller WS drybag behind the seat, I would imagine the Zon'e will too.

[GregS]

Something I can run most rivers with up to G4, but that won't be spongey and lifeless on G2. Something I can progress my kayaking in.

Sounds like you should be paddling a competition slalom boat...

[sprintpaddler]

The Burn is bathtub, Glide all the way!

Jim, get out of town matey! No way is the Burn a bathtub. It`s true I`ve havn`t the ability as yet to reach it`s potential, & admit it does look after you in the rough stuff ( a good thing me thinks ), but I`ve seen top paddlers do amazing manoevers in them. Think my recommendation is a good one for Simon, particularly as there`s room for his camera box:)

Cheers,
Ted.

[justin-g]

Axiom boofs like a dream - not sure where you heard that?? Tis me setting up for a boof on double drop on the east lyn....

[dan dubya]

I recommend trying out the Jackson fun runner, its a very fast fun boat, I have paddled the small z one and axiom 8.0 also and found the fun runner to be a better size and for me than both of those boats also I found the axiom for me didn't have enough volume in the back end and the z one was a bit big but with some adjustments it would work I feel.



here is a little write up I did with some friends for my team.
http://squarerock.co.uk/2010/blog.php?s ... m=&ucat=2&

all these boats are very good it is about finding the boat that fits you and your paddling style.

and yes I am supported by SquareRock

dan

[Tom_Laws]

I'm NOT supported by SquareRock, I paddled the fun runner for a bit on Sunday, and I liked it, though if I had one I would change the footrest (good idea for a club boat though - old school ladder meets newschool thinking - faff free).

RPM blasts better though.

[Adrian Cooper]

That Fun Runner is so like the Z.one (after a cursory glance)

[justin-g]

I tired the Fun at CIWW and really liked it - more playful than the Axiom for sure. But I got the Axiom for £450 new as a second and that pretty much swayed the arguement.

[SimonMW]

The Axiom is definitely top of the list. The more I read, the more I like. I did actually have a short go in the 8.0 version once, but it was a bit too small for me, and I knew a lot less about boats back then. But the 8.5 seems like it would be a good bet.

Reading through the comments here and in other threads from the past it has allayed my fears that such a boat would not be good for harder rapids. It probably wouldn't be good for the Etive in full flow, but then I doubt I would ever paddle such a river anytime soon anyway!

So now I just need to find a used one (preferably in red), and at a good price. So if anyone knows anyone...

[lennart]

you can still look at the detox and the spice. detox is a playboathull, nthat you need to drive. the spice is an easie funcrusiser. if you wnat to progess the detox is a great boat. it will keep you active. and edging properly.
the other called boats are going to get you forward as well.
try some or just take the plunge and paddle the boat for at least a year to live in it properly

[joules]

Mmmm...I think the ideal is three boats:

1. Winter creeker type: bigger for all the duff we carry around and room for comfort, boots, LCD TV, pottie etc

2. 'Summer quirt boat like s6/s8 (cheap)...perfect for the G3 playspots like the T, Dee & surf a treat (sea and rivers)

3. Playboat; To hone boat trim skills and get a good thrashing at CIWW, HPP, The T, Dee etc.. whilst learning to Loop

Oh and a waveski for real carve and cut back on sea waves...


But not everyone has the space nor inclination...so the axiom genre is probably the best route here for a single boat...flat hull, rails, speed, bit of squirt for fun so that's the varun/loki/axiom/ type...so long as its tough enough for say a pin situation in winter and has rescue handles etc. Axiom ticks most boxes....

[Jim]

The Burn is bathtub, Glide all the way!

Jim, get out of town matey! No way is the Burn a bathtub.

OK, so you are cruising down the river in your burn and a nice green wave appears in front you do you:

A) Wavewheel it?
B) Paddle through flat and level and feel part of yourself die? (the fun part)
C) Get halfway through the double pump before remembering you are in a bathtub, try to abort and capsize embarrassingly
D) Get all the way through the double pump and throw the bow down straining something as the boat reminds you it's a bathtub, and capsize embarrassingly and in pain.

My experience of the burn is mostly C and D.

I should clarify that I outgrew my Glide and now use a Session+

I do not however encourage the OP to pick an out and out playboat at his stage of development, I am simply throwing into the mix that I still do not beleive creek boats are 'a requirement' despite Mr Westgarth's and Mr Rainsley's best attempts to prove otherwise to me :-)

[Ollie5]

Hi Simon,
Me and my 16 year old lad paddle the Upper Dart a fair bit when time allows and we use a Burn and Blistick Mac1 when its higher, but as soon as it drops to a couple inches below slab my playboat comes out, its hardwork but so much more fun! You can get around rocks easier, not get pinned and enjoy the experience, I am not the gretest paddler so anywhere around level I'm in the Burn. My lad however is far better than me and has done the Upper in his Varun when the slab is fully covered so depending on your age and ability and how much fun you want it can be done (I was speaking to someone who has done the Upper upto 3rd Arch in his G-Force!) My Burn feels too easy at times.

[Ollie5]

2. 'Summer quirt boat like s6/s8 (cheap)...perfect for the G3 playspots like the T, Dee & surf a treat (sea and rivers)

I currently have a dilemna with my S6....brilliant surf boat but difficult in doing a river with Grade 4 rapids, looking at trying a LL C125 as a secondary boat.