How do I use upright roof bars properly

[Karnalipaddler]

Hi, I have previously just put mine and my sons kayaks straight onto the roof bars side by side and looped the straps over, but just got a sit on top for my wife, so now have to transport 3. I got some upright bars but am not sure how to use them properly and cant find anything good on youtube. Do I loop through the roof bars and then up and over just leaning the kayak onto the upright? There is a loop on the upright do I put it through that as well, or just through that and down one side only of the kayak? Also if there are 2 on one side of the upright will it be secure enough strapping over the 2 together or do I need to do each one individually?

Sorry this is a bit long winded but hope someone can offer advice.
Thanks.

[Crampy]

Hi,

Put your strap through the loop on the top of the upright letting both free ends hang over your kayak[s] which'll have been placed on their side against the uprights, pull one end down under your roof bar then back up to the buckle, the straps will only come over one side of the kayak[s] but they'll be held inpalce against the uprights..hope this makes sense ...or helps...

[chriscw]

When carrying three boats I often put my ropes through the upright loops tied with a lark's head as usual. Put two boats on one side on edge and bring the ropes from the uprights over them down to the roof bars tying with a tension knot. I normally put the other boat flat on the roof bar and bring the other end of the ropes down under the roof bar beside the kayak, then over the kayak and tie off with a tension knot as before. Straps are somewhat more fiddly but I am sure something along the same lines might work.

[MikeB]

As above - and tie the whole lot together as well, independent of the uprights. Mike

[chriscw]

Other ways I have loaded or seen loaded three kayaks using uprights include three sets of rope of increasing lengths and all boats on edge on the same side of the upright one pair of ropes over each boat and then tied to the roof bar, that way each boat remins tied on while its predecessor is unloaded. Or the same thing but with one boat on edge on one side and the others on the other. If putting a single boat on edge you need to make sure that it does not slip down, one way to do this as mike said is to rope or strap the three boats together independent of the roof bars.

You can also of course also run a rope through the boat toggles and back to the roof bars to be sure.

You probably cannot afford to get securing boats wrong as if one comes off you could be in a lot of trouble especially if it damages property or people, but I am sure we all know that.

[chriscw]

Oh and of course you can do it without uprights one boat flat the other two lent against it, tie the flat boat first.

[Jim]

Tie over the 2 boats together using the loop in the top of the uprights and around the cross bar at the bottom. You want the strap to pull the tops of the boats in towards the bar, the loop will do that, wrapping around the cross bar only won't and feeding through the loop and round the bar is excessive.

Ideally all straps/ropes will leave the kayak and approach any bar at 90 degrees - this is the shortest route for it. The uprights aren't long enough to do that but the loop ensures the strap can't travel up and down the upright. This is important at the cross bar however - if you have the strap angled away, OR TOWARDS the kayak on a straight length of bar you have too much strap and with road vibration and can work along to the 90 degree position allowing a little slack into the strap around the boat, which can be enough for them to slide off under breaking. If your boats overhang the mounting towers or longitudinal rails, it is safe to lead them under the boat if they are goingto pass behind the tower or rail such that they cannot move out to the 90 degree position - this is common with 2 boats on the same side but 2 boats usually puts the strap on the straight part of the bar inboard of the towers hence my warning.

If you tie the boats on with separate straps, notice how usually when you tighten the second boat down, the straps on the inner one go slack - the compression of the plastic hulls and the friction between them does most of the work, the inner straps are often redundant when driving - they may however be useful for loading and unloading in windy conditions, or in the highly unlikely scenario of a strap breaking would mean you only lose 1 boat not both - I would suggest checking the straps from time to time and replacing worn ones since a boat flying off a roofrack could easily lead to a fatal RTA, you want to be sure that nothing is coming off!

Putting the SOT on the opposite side is probabky the best plan - where you have multiple boats look at their widths and how the straps are working over them. Often you will see a small boat in the middle which the strap is not even touching - this is not critical but it could be getting more friction from the strap if the order of loading was changed. If the boats are very different in width say a canoe and a kayak, the narrower boat might not have much friction on it at all. I presume the SOT is considerably wider than the other boats, thus it will be safest to tie it on one side, and the others on the other side - I presume this because I know Karitek make a longer J bar to carry SOTs, I use one for my sea kayak because it fits it better.

Most sea kayakers run a rope through the end toggles and down to the towing eyes or other attachment point - this is primarily to stop the ends of the very long boats lifting in the wind because they are so long compared to the support length and is often overkill for shorter boats. Some have found that if they do have a roof rack failure having the boats still tied to the car does more damage whilst you slow down to a stop. Some WW paddlers also tie the ends together and either tie them down to towing eyes or back to the cross bars. If you tie back to the cross bars the rope/strap will be an extra restraint for the boat moving longitudinally but will do nothing to stop it lifting. If you tie to the towing eyes, for a short car the rear one may lead in the right direction to help against longitudinal movement but the front one will be running the wrong way due to the length of the bonnet, it may help against lift though - don't just assume that tying the ends down will give you extra security, think about the direction the tie leads in and whether you have anything opposing it - if for example you tie short playboats to the front towing eye (strap leading forward), and to the rear towing eye (strap leading forward) the tension in those 2 straps is trying to pull the boats forward on the roof rack - if you cant arrange one leading rearward, you are safer with none at all.

I'm not sure the above is just common sense, I think experience plays a part too - however for anyone used to working with ropes and straps, it should seem like common sense.... However; I think most accidents are due to not understanding how the straps are working.

That reminds me - a frozen strap will get longer when it thaws out and becomes flexible again! found that out the hard way!

[Karnalipaddler]

Thanks for the replies, I have had a dry run on the drive tonight and feel confident how to do it now. I appreciate the advice, it was very helpful.

[box2k2]

Example above.

Pair of straps from upright loop to roof bar for the yellow and red boats.

Pair of straps from upright loop to roof bar for the orange and green boats.

Pair of straps from upright loop to roof bar for the grey/black boat (passing over the orange and green on the way).

[geyrfugl]

Avoid multistorey carparks (oops...)

Otherwise, get long bars, put uprights nearer one side so you can get two boats on the narrow side, and four on the wide. If you have more, put playboats inside the car or on top. If you have an open boat to shift, best put it on the wide side (so it's in the middle of the car), on edge with the keel to the uprights. You may need to remove a thwart temporarily to get a kayak inside the open boat if you have lots of kayaks to shift as well.



The uprights are between the seventeen foot open boat and the double sea kayak.

(That's only five boats on the roof - I had shorter bars back then, and I took the trailer that day, too - for a club come-and-try-it day. I did, however, take pretty much that combination of boats on the roof from County Durham to North Wales and back - it was a bit iffy in a cross-wind at the higher speeds on the motorway).

Remember that most roof bars are marked "75 kg max." It's not clear if that is per bar or per attachment point (ie. 150 kg for the whole bar, 300 kg for the pair), but safest to assume the former. It's possible to double up the bars if you have certain types of roof rails... not needed for the load shown, as that was only about 125 kg.

Andy

[Chris Bolton]

...per bar or per attachment point

or per rail or per roof!

On windy days, with long boats, apart from tying the ends to the bumpers I have also put a strap round the whole lot and through the top of the door openings. If it rains it leaks.

Rather than loop the strap through the top of the upright and run both halves over the boat(s), I usually loop the strap round the boat(s), through the top of the upright and under the roof bar. This has two benefits; (1) if the upright breaks (it's happened to me due to hidden rusting) you still have a strap round the boat and the roof bar and (2) the strap is close to the boat and doesn't go slack if the boat rotates a bit. As Jim observes, if a small rotation of the boat can slacken the strap, it quickly becomes a large rotation.

Chris

[TechnoEngineer]

Blimey - what's the rated roof load capacity of your car?

[R3V]

But why 8 boats inc a double sea kayak when only room for 2 people inside?

[geyrfugl]

But why 8 boats inc a double sea kayak when only room for 2 people inside?

Actually only room for one person inside - unless front seat passenger about 3'1"...

I like a choice of boats when I get to see the river ...

Or, as it says in the post:

I took the trailer that day, too - for a club come-and-try-it day.

The trailer had five single sea kayaks and probably some other stuff... can't remember if I
had the other double sea kayak at the time
I took the boats, people took themselves. Every boat got played in at least some of the time,
and there were more than just the ones I brought... It screws your mpg, but if one car takes
all the boats, everyone else's mpg is fine and less fuel is wasted overall.

But it's more than just meets like that which call for a high hull:head ratio - if you're going
away for more than one day, you may well want more than one boat - it's dull to paddle the
same kind of water in the same kind of craft day after day and you will push the envelope
faster by changing boats (that's why I have a playboat and a creek boat, a fast Greenland
sea kayak and a voluminous forgiving expedition sea kayak).

Blimey - what's the rated roof load capacity of your car?

Well, I believe they squash a bit if you roll them, so I assume it's less than 1.5 tons.
I'm pretty sure it's more than 150 kg, though ;-) The newer ones (Subaru Outback)
have much crapper roof rails and I do get nervous about this sort of load (had six
boats to the alps a few times, though, so at caravan-towing speeds it seems fine).

Andy

[MikeB]

I'm pretty sure it's more than 150 kg, though ;-) The newer ones (Subaru Outback)
have much crapper roof rails and I do get nervous about this sort of load (had six
boats to the alps a few times, though, so at caravan-towing speeds it seems fine).

Andy

Somewhat less, I suspect. http://carleasingmadesimple.com/busines ... roof-rack/