A Licence to Paddle the Tees?!

Whitewater and touring

A Licence to Paddle the Tees?!

Postby Big Henry » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:07 pm

On the CE Facebook page is the following post:
Canoe England wrote:We've added some gr8 new Canoe Trails to our Website. Why not try one? Or, better yet, send us one of your own! http://t.co/54SJHGaE

So I followed it and found that the River Tees was included. In this document it says:
A licence to paddle the river is included in the Canoe England membership fee. Otherwise licenses can be obtained from http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/license-it or http://www.waterscape.com/ or http://www.waterscape.com/

(Take your Canoe England membership card with you as it is your licence as well)

So did anyone else know you "need" a licence, or is this more horse crap coming from CE?

(And gr8! Really!)
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Re: A Licence to Paddle the Tees?!

Postby Jim Pullen » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:43 pm

I read that too. It's clearly nonsense no matter what interpretation of the legal situation they're using, as even though the section of the Tees it refers to is above the barrage, the offical tidal limit of the Tees (and hence "navigation") is still above Yarm, hence no question of any "right" to be there.
Done any NE/NW rivers not on the site? PM me!
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Re: A Licence to Paddle the Tees?!

Postby Adrian Cooper » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:58 pm

The BW site is rather vague on what you need and don't need a licence for when it comes to rivers. The ''Tees Navigation'' is mentioned. The BCU note also refers to the fact that before the barrage was constructed, the river was tidal; I recall law on that subject!
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Re: A Licence to Paddle the Tees?!

Postby Big Henry » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:15 pm

Is it a normal ruling in law that if barrages or weirs are built below the previous tidal high point on a river, the previous high tidal point is still accepted? Other than the Tees I can think of the Esk above Whitby (not that there is any issue there), and I'm sure there will be many more.

Also, does anyone know if there is any issue with putting your canoe on below the barrage and paddling out to the sea? The simple answer would be that there is no issue because it is tidal water, but I have heard otherwise, but I'm not sure how reliable it was.
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Re: A Licence to Paddle the Tees?!

Postby Jim » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:27 pm

Don't overlook that a navigation may be subject to local byelaws and controlled by the port authority, or British Waterways. A right to navigate is not quite the same as a right to access, and is not necessarily free.

For paddling to the coast from the barrage, I would suggest that there is almost certainly a requirement to contact some administrative body, perhaps a port authority, perhaps estuary control. It might not be the busiest estuary around Britain, but you do stand a fair chance of meeting with big ships. It may simply be that you are supposed to contact them to get information on shipping movements and advise them what yours will be so they can make sure traffic is kept apart, there may be no legal background to it. I don't know about the Tees particularly.

The Clyde for many years was thought to be out of bounds due to shipping etc. but it seems this was mainly an impression put about by overzealous lifeguards and the fact that all the access points are locked. Since the land reform things have been cleared up a little and it is now possible to launch in Glasgow and paddle to the sea, there are certain requirements though and some of my own tips:
- You need to contact SCA for instructions and code for a gate to get to the river at Glasgow Green
- You must launch below and not shoot the barrage (it is walled in death anyway)
- You must contact Clydeport Estuary control, preferably by VHF to find out about shipping movements (if using VHF you can receive updates)
- If you are instructed by estuary control to pass a certain part of the river on a certain side due to ship movement, please do so.
- There is alternative access at the transport museum at the Kelvin confluence, I beleive access is free but the car park isn't. I know the chairman of the maritime trust is keen for people to use the slipway and I did advise him that I didn't beleive people would be prepared to pay. I have since heard rumour that the arrangment is not the easiest to use by kayak, which is kind of a shame because before the museum was built the remains of Inglis shipyard slipways were there and they were perfectly useable by kayak, I egressed from the Kelvin on them a couple of times :-)
- Don't forget the seaplane uses the river in the city centre, it has to make a pass before landing to check for obstructions - kayaks are not that visible though.

Basically it is physically impossible to access or egress the river for much of the distance down to the coast, but it is permitted.

Once you get down the estuary, depending on your destination you might stray into an area classed as a Naval Dockyard, there are certain rules in those which should be followed and it will be useful to have VHF.

Most of the time kayaks can paddle completely anonymously in these sorts of places without ever being in or causing any danger, but one can understand why the authorities prefer to know we are about.
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Re: A Licence to Paddle the Tees?!

Postby Jim » Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:32 pm

Big Henry wrote:Is it a normal ruling in law that if barrages or weirs are built below the previous tidal high point on a river, the previous high tidal point is still accepted? Other than the Tees I can think of the Esk above Whitby (not that there is any issue there), and I'm sure there will be many more.


Again using the Clyde as an example, above the barrage I mentioned previously is the rowing club where a lot of the local paddlers go and train in marathon or WWR boats, they have always had access above the barrage, I'm not sure exactly where the NTL is or was though.
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Re: A Licence to Paddle the Tees?!

Postby Big Henry » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:53 am

Just had a reply from the Operational Supervisor, British Waterways, Tees Barrage about paddling BELOW the barrage down to the sea:
There would not be any problem with you carrying you canoe around the Barrage you may need to or at least want to speak to the harbour office downstream of the Barrage just so they are aware that you are travelling in to their water space due to the large container ship they have coming and going VTS number is 01642 277205.
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Re: A Licence to Paddle the Tees?!

Postby sandra » Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:53 pm

Big Henry wrote:Just had a reply from the Operational Supervisor, British Waterways, Tees Barrage about paddling BELOW the barrage down to the sea:


Not sure if you'd really want to though. I went for a training session below the barrage the other day with a couple of friends for a change of scenery and it is easy to put on (you can park on river right and just follow a footpath then clamber over some rocks-maybe less if it's high tide to get on). However, it smells REALLY bad: first of sewage and then of tar or something as you paddle downstream. We didn't go that far as it was only an hour long session...we were kind of hoping to get to the great feat of engineering that is the transport bridge, but turned around before then.

Aside from the bad smells and annoying wind though there was one high point...the resident seal followed us along and kept popping up to say hello!
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Re: A Licence to Paddle the Tees?!

Postby Scots_Charles_River » Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:50 am

Jim wrote:The Clyde for many years was thought to be out of bounds due to shipping etc. but it seems this was mainly an impression put about by overzealous lifeguards and the fact that all the access points are locked. Since the land reform things have been cleared up a little and it is now possible to launch in Glasgow and paddle to the sea, there are certain requirements though and some of my own tips:
- You need to contact SCA for instructions and code for a gate to get to the river at Glasgow Green
- You must launch below and not shoot the barrage (it is walled in death anyway)
- You must contact Clydeport Estuary control, preferably by VHF to find out about shipping movements (if using VHF you can receive updates)
- If you are instructed by estuary control to pass a certain part of the river on a certain side due to ship movement, please do so.
- There is alternative access at the transport museum at the Kelvin confluence, I beleive access is free but the car park isn't. I know the chairman of the maritime trust is keen for people to use the slipway and I did advise him that I didn't beleive people would be prepared to pay. I have since heard rumour that the arrangment is not the easiest to use by kayak, which is kind of a shame because before the museum was built the remains of Inglis shipyard slipways were there and they were perfectly useable by kayak, I egressed from the Kelvin on them a couple of times :-)
- Don't forget the seaplane uses the river in the city centre, it has to make a pass before landing to check for obstructions - kayaks are not that visible though.

Basically it is physically impossible to access or egress the river for much of the distance down to the coast, but it is permitted.



The Clyde has lots of options and has a good slip at the Transport Mueseum.

http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/forum/ ... -bare-bums!
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Re: A Licence to Paddle the Tees?!

Postby Davey2C » Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:52 am

Hello,
Just to confirm that you can get along the Tees from the Barrage to the River Mouth; I did it last summer in a open 2 person Canoe, I didn't know about calling VTS but the Pilot craft heading up and down the river came over for a chat and gave us the VTS number to call for authorisation. Ideally they do want you to have a VHF radio to listen for traffic but I don't think it's too much of a problem if you don't, as they still let us continue without one.
As per the previous persons posts the whole river below the barrage does smell quite badly but the smell does subside the further downstream you go. Another note to add is that it can be quite daunting passing extremely large cargo ships and is not for the faint hearted, so once we passed the Riverside Stadium we just went 'Hell for Leather' and avoided all other craft.
Once at the Mouth of the Tees we alighted at the South Gare, you can get out at Paddys Hole where they harbour the fishing vessels and there is another slipway further along next to the old Life Boat Station but I believe it is a private slipway.

It was very interesting seeing the old industrial areas of Middlesbrough and seeing another side of the Boro' you wouldn't otherwise see. I'm glad I did it and that I've ticked the box, but I wouldn't travel that part of the river in the near future.
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