Help with 4* Inland Kayak

[Mr Mark Pugh]

Hi

I have just completed my 4* assessors training course. To start assessing I must gain experience in delivering the 4* syllabus. Therefore, if anyone is working towards their 4* (either training or assessment) and would like some advice, feedback, coaching etc Iam willing to offer this. I wouldn't expect any payment except for a few sweets for my young daughters! I live besides the River Ribble in North Yorkshire and could travel to rivers such as the Lune, Kent, Eden, Tees.

Diolch,

Mark Pugh

[once young]

Sut mae

I would very interested in setting something up for a four star training and a later assessment ( is this a recommended thing assessing paddlers you have trained?)

I am the LCO for the Humber and we have a number of folks who would be good candidates ( got the wwsr already)

I could sort out a big bag of sweets by way of a thank you


Nos da

[Wilf]

Hi Mark

I have a 4 Star Kayak training running Feb 7/8th. You are welcome to sit in on it if you like.

I also have an assessment running in March.

Wilf

[Mr Mark Pugh]

Gents

Thanks, both proposals sound ideal.

Wilf - I can probably make Sunday 8 Feb no problem but the Saturday is more troublesome. I will get back to you in the New Year when the school term has started. Would you like mock students? I have about half a dozon school pupils who reguraly paddle grade 2/3 water. On Sunday 8 Feb it would very little problem getting them to you.

LCO Humber - Your idea sounds great. I have no idea of suitable rivers so far east. Stretches of the Wharfe would be good and it is inbetween us. Again Sundays are best and school holidays i.e the next three weeks and Feb 15-22. A whole bag of sweets is far too much!

My home telephone number is 01729 823 769.

Many, many thanks,

Mark Pugh

[Boogalooo]

Hi Mark

A group of 4 of us are heading up to the Lakes for three days of paddling over the weekend of Jan 10. We are all 3*, one of us is doing the 4*assessment in Feb and two will be doing the training.

It'd be good to paddle with someone new and learn something, so we'd be interested to meet up for a paddle on the Sat or Sun. We'll be running all rivers for the first time so learning to read and lead in terms of the 4* will be useful.

Regarding payment options, I normally think it's good practice not to offer sweets to people's daughters but I'll make an exception on this occasion.

Cheers

Dave

[Mr Mark Pugh]

Dave

I am mostly free on the Sunday and would like to meet up. I have some knowledge of local river but my suggest would be determined on where you are staying or heading to. I have put you into my calender for the Sunday but feel free to contact me before either through this website or on the phone to talk rivers, accomodation etc. My home telephone number is 01729 823 769.

Hopefully see you in 2009!

Mark Pugh

[Mr Mark Pugh]

Just putting notice to the top.

[Mr Mark Pugh]

Just putting notice to the top

[dolph]

Who did you complete your assessor training with?

[steve t]

Hi Mark

There are two in our club working towards our 4-star. I'm away for a few days but will get in touch in the new year.


Cheers
Steve

[Mr Mark Pugh]

Steve

Have you any thoughts on meeting up to do some 4* stuff with your club members?

Hopefully it will rain soon,

Mark

[Simon Westgarth]

Good luck with the trainer and assessor progression. Please note that since September 07, there is no Inland Kayak awards, it now called White Water Kayak.

[Adrian Cooper]

it now called White Water Kayak.

It's now called 4 Star White Water Leader and covers both kayak and specialist open canoe. I am not sure if someone trained to assess this for kayak can also assess for canoe, this is not clear in the syllabus but if it follows advice I have had for 3* then one should.

A further complication is that the syllabus requires assessors to be either current level 3 with 5 star or UKCC level 4. Inasmuch as the UKCC level 4 has not been developed, I don't see where the 4* assessor's syllabus comes from. Presumably this another stop gap measure which will become obsolete or redundant in due course.

[Simon Westgarth]

it now called White Water Kayak.

It's now called 4 Star White Water Leader and covers both kayak and specialist open canoe. I am not sure if someone trained to assess this for kayak can also assess for canoe, this is not clear in the syllabus but if it follows advice I have had for 3* then one should.

Indeed you right White Water Leader it is, although throughout all referance for a boat is thankfully a kayak, no specialist or tradtional bathtubs I indicated. As ever there appears to be numerous holes in the future proofing of the introduction of UKCC, I'd expect another reworking of the star test syllabi before we're done. Currently I am holding my tongue of an outragious development with the Advanced WWS&R, details to come if no parity on the matter are forthcoming.

[Paul Smith]

Currently I am holding my tongue of an outragious development with the Advanced WWS&R, details to come if no parity on the matter are forthcoming.

As you have now mentioned it, you may as well spill the beans! Besides it can't be any worse than the draft that I saw back in October. With loads of big gaps in it.

On about a slightly different note, what is your view Simon on training and assessing the same candidates at 4* or even 5*?

[Simon Westgarth]

Currently I am holding my tongue of an outragious development with the Advanced WWS&R, details to come if no parity on the matter are forthcoming.

As you have now mentioned it, you may as well spill the beans! Besides it can't be any worse than the draft that I saw back in October. With loads of big gaps in it.

On about a slightly different note, what is your view Simon on training and assessing the same candidates at 4* or even 5*?

Nothing quite yet Paul, although I do agree that the draft syllabus for the new Advanced WWS&R was very much left field in terms of content. Another slightly more pressing matter has come to light and am awaiting a reply before I say anything else.

For both 4 and 5 Star training and most recreational coaching done these days in the UK, there is little in the way of individual focused long term development with a specific paddler and coach, and as such there is less likely to be a paddler only having their sole training and coaching from the same coach. In addition the development required from training and assessment almost will certainly bring the paddler into contact with other coaches. Plus both 4 and 5 Star Assessment require 2 different assessors to uphold a level of parity and to ensure the standard of the ward is robust. Therefore in conclusion, I do not feel that there is a conflict of interest if your same trainer is your assessor for any of the awards where there is a period of development required and an additional assessor is required to ensure everything is as objective as the assessment can be.

[Adrian Cooper]

it now called White Water Kayak.

It's now called 4 Star White Water Leader and covers both kayak and specialist open canoe. I am not sure if someone trained to assess this for kayak can also assess for canoe, this is not clear in the syllabus but if it follows advice I have had for 3* then one should.

Indeed you right White Water Leader it is, although throughout all referance for a boat is thankfully a kayak, no specialist or tradtional bathtubs I indicated.

Taken from the 4* WW Leader syllabus on the Canoe England website here
http://www.canoe-england.org.uk/media/p ... llabus.pdf

''Craft - Whitewater spec kayak or canoe suitable for the remit of the award and the assessment environment''

That'll be 'specialist bathtubs' then.

[Simon Westgarth]

That'll be 'specialist bathtubs' then.

So in spite of your publicly know deviancy, you have finally started calling your craft of choice a bathtub!! Te he....

[Adrian Cooper]

Yeh yeh, very clever. :-) You'll notice the quotation marks, indicating I was quoting someone. Actually, I am pleased to say my boat only occasionally represents a bath tub; with me sat in it, full of water but with no shower attachment. I must get round to fitting one of those.

[Simon Westgarth]

The late and much famed openboat designer Franky Hubbard was the master in changing his openboat into a hottub. He would pack a coil of copper pipe and some garden hose, make a wood fire close to a running stream. Water would flow downhill through the hose into the copper coil, which was in the fire, the heated water would then flow into the bathtub, I mean openboat. It was a great use of the boat and made river living quite excellent.

[once young]

That sound like a very creative use for an open boat and I thought the best for one use was to carry beer or as a outdoor playpen for babies

[Adrian Cooper]

A further complication is that the syllabus requires assessors to be either current level 3 with 5 star or UKCC level 4. Inasmuch as the UKCC level 4 has not been developed, I don't see where the 4* assessor's syllabus comes from.

Found the answer. Assessors need to be level 3 with 5 star and appropriate training This training apparently needs assessment also by a current (old) A4 (although the assessor grades have been done away with).

[wild river]

Hi mark
I have a course this weekend running in the lakes. Give me a call one evening this week if you want to come and watch.
Sean