Do we need slings?

[nutterboy]

Was tidying up earlier on and all my kit was lying about and when I was looking at it I had a thought. Do we really need to carry slings when we can just use a throwline around an object as an an anchor?

When we use slings, it is around an object such as a tree or a big rock so why dont we just leave the sling at home and instad use a throwline on the basis that it is longer so more versatile and we have to carry less kit.

Generally in a group there will be at least 3-4 throwlines so if we miagine the worst case scenario for retreiving a stuck boat then we need:
throwline for the anchor (1)
throwline for the hauling system (2)
throwline as an extension if the boat is really far out (3)
throwline for a live bait to get a rope on to the boat (4)

We might not even need 3 and 4 depending on the scenarino

I seem to remember a link on here to blog about someone trying to retreive their stuck boat and used a rope around a large pipe as an anchor and it worked well

Thoughts?

David

P.S. if anyone has a link to the article then could you post it up as well as it was quite an entertaining read. cheers

[Cha0sSt0rm]

Towing boats across river if the swimmer gets rescued to one side and boat rescued to the other.
Dragging boats up hills, across fields to the get in and back to civilization afterwards etc.

Just two examples.

Obviously basing this post entirely on your definition of 'sling' being the same as mine ie something like this: http://www.canoesandkayaks.co.uk/produc ... n_26mm_DMM

[harry_paddle]

towing a boat full of water to the side once someone has swum - rather than shunting it

[Ieuan Belshaw]

Would have been annoying without slings.
We then used throw lines later to absail a steep bank.

[nutterboy]

same definition Cha0sSt0rm

Ieuan, what part of the owering would have been difficult?

the boat towing idea I can get and I saw on a WWSR but I would rather not attach myself, even over the shoulder to a sling because of the entrapment risk and getting tangled if I rolled. valid point though

Does anyone hav the link to the article?

cheers

[Ieuan Belshaw]

Owering?

It would have been annoying tieing 5 boats together without slings at hand just above some drops (out of view).
+ Packing a sling back into your pfd is a lot quicker and easier then doing that with a throw line ;)

[ChrisE]

Personally I use the sling in my ba a lot more than my throw line.
I've used it for a quick secure of a rescued boat whilst I get out to drain it, towing a rescued boat across the river (on a flat stretch), pulling someone out of a pin (where sorter length of clean line on the end for the minimal extra distance they will paddle is better), and various places for quicker hauling of boats on the bank than would be possible with faffing with the longer throw line.

Also I'd rather use the significantly cheaper sling to attach to a tree/ random rock, as then any fraying from being pulled one way or another goes on the sling rather than the throwbag.

Also if setting up something on the spot for a boat rescue I would probably use a line to secure the boat and stop it being washed down further, which if it's pinned and hard to move much at once may be an italian hitch onto a crab, and so I would potentially want a seperate anchor, boat secureing line and haulage system.
(not that I, touch wood, have had much experience on rescuing properly pinned boats, just a couple of WWSR courses)

[Tom_Laws]

We?

I need them.

[Mad_Erik]

I have used themquite a bit for anchors. I like to keep the throw line releasable. Alo, I would rather the sling rub against rock spikes, trees etc than the throw line.

Again, I use my sling more than my throw line, they are great beacuse you can have them easily accessible in a BA pocket etc.

[scottdog007]

Doing a vector pull. So you have caught someone with the throwline, but they are not swinging in to an eddy. Then someone else attaches the sling with a crab to the throw line and pull the line and the person into an eddy.

Also as a rescue line. May be you only need a short distance to get the person and a throw bag is not necessary but a sling is the perfect length.

May be you are in a gorge, you can get out to go and help a person but it is too difficult to pull your boat out. So you attach a sling to your boat and to a rock, your boat isn't going anywhere.

A sling with a crab is a must more me.

[Nedders]

IF you know how to use a sling you should always carry one with a crab.

Cant see why you would not.

[peteri]

Used one a lot this weekend.

Out with a group of boaters from my local club, lots of swims.

Used the sling more than I ever had, not really for towing - but for attaching boats so they don't float off while sorting out kit, pulling boats (half full of water) out of the river, the aforementioned 'short throw line' to pull swimmers up river banks etc.

Far more useful in that scenario than a throwline and quicker to deploy.

Pete

[TechnoEngineer]

the boat towing idea I can get and I saw on a WWSR but I would rather not attach myself, even over the shoulder to a sling because of the entrapment risk and getting tangled if I capsized

Carry a knife, and be able to use it with one hand....... Chances are the sling would slide down your arm anyway.

I use a sling+krab far far more often than a throwline. The redundant piece of kit here is the river-towline IMO.

[DaveBland]

Repacking throwlines is a ball-ache. I like slings coz I'm lazy.
They weigh nothing and are cheap.

[mattdennies]

Echoing the points said above, I use a sling more than a throwline.

In slot drops where you think someone may take a battering it is useful to sit just below the drop with a sling to chuck to them rather than a line that has the potential to get caught in the drop and wrap around them.

I'd also much rather have my cheap sling wear out rubbing on a tree than my expensive line. The other issue with using a line for an anchor is it leaves roughly 23M of line sitting on the floor for someone to trip over or for systems to get tangled in.

I also have Issues with your '4 throwlines will be enough' idea. You presume that everyone in your group will be together. If the first two boaters have safely got down a gorge section but the third gets pinned on a rock and swims, the first two down may not be able to get back up the river to help him. This leaves the fourth person up river to deal with the situation. He only has the one throwline available as 2 are down river and un-accessable and the other is in the boat that's pinned to the rock. There is no way you can deal with that situation with one throwline.

Again echoing a point already made, a sling rolls up quickly and fits into your b.a giving you quick access unlike a throwline in the back of your boat (Go on, someone start the waist mounted throwline arguement, dares ya). As for the towing idea and being stuck to the boat, I thread the sling through the grab handle and just hold each end with one hand, thus being free of the boat at all times.

[nutterboy]

Carry a knife, and be able to use it with one hand....... Chances are the sling would slide down your arm anyway.

I do cary a one handed knife and know how to use it but would rather not take the chance

eliminate the risk instead of reacting to it etc.

Can understand and will probably still carry one but was just thinking about ways to reduce what I carry about

Just out of interest, do many folk carry their slings in their B.A?. I usually carry mine in the back of the boat because it makes the front of the B.A stick out quite a bit (peak river guide and 16mm 240cm sling)

Cheers

P.S. anyone know what blog that was?

[ChrisE]

If you have problems with your ba sticking out and don't like it you could try tucking it up under the top layer of your cag/dry suit and thus being below your ba it wouldn't stick out further than a normal ba anyway.

[TechnoEngineer]

Yes deffo carry the sling in a BA. I guess you *could* carry one in something like a towline pocket. Best to have it easy to get to regardless.

[Adrian Cooper]

I carry my sling tucked up under my cag. I tuck it in bands going back and forth, to spread the bulk, with the crab just in front of my hip so I can grab it easily.

[Ieuan Belshaw]

Just out of interest, do many folk carry their slings in their B.A?. I usually carry mine in the back of the boat because it makes the front of the B.A stick out quite a bit (peak river guide and 16mm 240cm sling)

Personally I think it's a safer option to keep gear on you. What if you loose your boat?
On my pfd I keep around 5 carabiner's, a pulley, a prussuk, 3 slings and a knife. Depending on the river I may keep a phone, wallet, keys on me too, leaving my boat virtually empty (first aid kits in a dry bag in the boat). Just my preference though.

[meelgeorge]

Nutterboy your a nutter....

[nutterboy]

Just out of interest Ieuan, what kind of B.A do you have which has pockets big enough for all of that?

[shanclan]

Repacking throwlines is a ball-ache. I like slings coz I'm lazy.
They weigh nothing and are cheap.

+1 lazy slacker.

[Ieuan Belshaw]

Just out of interest Ieuan, what kind of B.A do you have which has pockets big enough for all of that?

Astral Green. One side pocket has 2 crabs and a sling, the other has a crab, sling, pulley and prussuk. The main front pocket has a sling + crab, and I have a sling + crab handy stuff down the front. Knife is in the knife pocket and a whistle is on one of the straps.

Maybe over doing it but I don't notice any of it + it doesn't weigh me down so... All good.

[Kayak-Bloke]

I ended up mid-rapid after a swim with one hand on a boulder and the other on my boat.
The paddler that turned up to 'rescue' me had forgotten his line and was too far to get to by reaching out or using a paddle (which he'd also forgotten..) I was able to get the sling from my from BA pocket. Tie it to my boat's grab handle and toss him the other end.

Once boat was out of the way I could unlcip my waist worn short rope and get myself pulled to the side.

Plus if you go to CIWW you can't take ropes on the course but I use my sling about 5 times everytime I go, to tow boats back for swimmers.

Very useful bit of kit indeed.

[Biscuit65]

I carry a long sling in the boat and another short sling in my PFD. An untied length of climbing tape is also really useful

http://www.unsponsored.co.uk/press/?p=893

[DaveBland]

...an untied length of climbing tape is also really useful

Way better than a sling as a quick knot converts it.

[Ieuan Belshaw]

Way better than a sling as a quick knot converts it.

But a tied sling weaker then stitched slings.

http://dmmclimbing.com/news/2012/03/kno ... C2%AE-vid/

[feelingjustfine]

I would love to see a situation on a river where a sling tied with a tape know would break considering the shock load that it would carry on a fall factor is still well below 1 for 99% of the time. I gave up on tape simply because tape knots are suck a pain in the ass to undo after bearing a significant load.

While on the subject of knots etc taking away from strength, you might as well mention how much a larks foot takes away from stated strength. I was shocked recently at how bad some of the knots folk that I know (and won't mention) use are-especially as they are canyon guides where a properly dressed knot is imperative at all times in order to sustain full strength and make sure it don't collapse under a shock load.

[DaveBland]

...I gave up on tape simply because tape knots are suck a pain in the ass to undo after bearing a significant load.

Just cut it a bit shorter each time. And then replace it when it gets too short. I hate undoing knots.