rescue harness help

[jehartnett]

Hi folks,

I have an Astral Greenjacket and have lost the O ring off the rescue harness. Can't seem to find a replacement online. Any suggestions? I really dont want to have to spend 20 quid on a cowtail just for the O ring!

[Tom_Laws]

Why do you need one?

[morsey]

Phone Performance kayaks ask for "Ya ring"
performance@kayaks.co.uk

That is what they are called, if they don't have those left, they'll have similar steel rings on the Select rotisserie.

[Performance Kayaks]

As 'Simon Says', we have some here for £5.99

[Rdscott]

Use a lock gate carabiner.

Dont think I have ever used mine or my cows tail. cliped dirctlyin to the harness but not the cows tailonly reason I can se isif youneed to clip your self in,and there has always been someone else around to do that for me.

[Tom_Laws]

Snaplink on chest harness = chance of it clipping onto the BA = not releasable = :-(

[Rdscott]

thats why I said lock gate, and dont store it on the BA

[Tom_Laws]

thats why I said lock gate, and dont store it on the BA

Just making sure people are aware.

Don't know what it's for? Don't use it. Metal rings - I take mine off, you can have it for postage.

[Performance Kayaks]

Don't know what it's for? Don't use it. Metal rings - I take mine off

It can be useful as you can say to anyone "Clip this to the Metal Ring and Screw the Gate up."

If a pleb is clipping you in, which Black Strap do they know to clip too? An experienced person would not need to be told.

[Tom_Laws]

If a pleb is clipping you in, which Black Strap do they know to clip too? An experienced person would not need to be told.

If a pleb is clipping me in, chances are they are then gonna be holding on to the rope, while I jump in the river. Funk that thank you very please.

[Performance Kayaks]

If a pleb is clipping me in, chances are they are then gonna be holding on to the rope, while I jump in the river.

A rescue harness it now just for Liv Baiting. Have you ever tried to attach yourself, with a sling, to a tree? I know I'm not that flexible anymore (cue ageist/fatist jokes!)

[Tom_Laws]

If a pleb is clipping me in, chances are they are then gonna be holding on to the rope, while I jump in the river.

A rescue harness it now just for Liv Baiting. Have you ever tried to attach yourself, with a sling, to a tree? I know I'm not that flexible anymore (cue ageist/fatist jokes!)

Get more flexbile, if I can do it with my car/floor tuned shoulders and back, anyone can! Don't paddle with plebs!

[TheKrikkitWars]

If a pleb is clipping me in, chances are they are then gonna be holding on to the rope, while I jump in the river.

A rescue harness it now just for Liv Baiting. Have you ever tried to attach yourself, with a sling, to a tree? I know I'm not that flexible anymore (cue ageist/fatist jokes!)

Get more flexbile, if I can do it with my car/floor tuned shoulders and back, anyone can! Don't paddle with plebs!

Exactly, if you can't reach to just above the small of your back comfortably; then you have/are about to have bigger problems than losing a small metal ring off your BA with your paddling.

[Performance Kayaks]

Get more flexbile, if I can do it with my car/floor tuned shoulders and back, anyone can! Don't paddle with plebs!

Exactly, if you can't reach to just above the small of your back comfortably; then you have/are about to have bigger problems than losing a small metal ring off your BA with your paddling.

Shut up, skinny youngsters!

[TheKrikkitWars]

Exactly, if you can't reach to just above the small of your back comfortably; then you have/are about to have bigger problems than losing a small metal ring off your BA with your paddling.

Shut up, skinny youngsters!

Ahahahaha, I'm now a prodigious 101kg, hardly skinny unfortunately :p

[-Ginge-]

Ha ha, Josh's Obese!

[Adrian Cooper]

I though Josh was quite tall, not met him yet. I calculate that he is 'overweight'. There are a few around like that.

[jehartnett]

think I might re-title this thread "from O-rings to obesity"... it would appear a connection is forming!
I must be the exception to the rule however ;-)

[DaveBland]

Don't know what it's for? Don't use it. Metal rings - I take mine off

It can be useful as you can say to anyone "Clip this to the Metal Ring and Screw the Gate up."

If a pleb is clipping you in, which Black Strap do they know to clip too? An experienced person would not need to be told.

Surely if you think a live bait may be needed, then you'd be ready clipped in. I hate 'safety' scenarios that comprise a few paddlers hanging around chatting and watching with a throwbag somewhere near. Take it seriously and be prepared.

Other than that, what Tom said.

[Tea Boy Tom]

Here's my thoughts on the matter. Who do we use live bait rescues on? People who are unable to help themselves (injured, unconscious, etc). So we should ask why would we set up a live bait proactively? That means we're expecting who ever runs the drop/rapid emerging in that state.
Consequently, a live bait will most likely be a reactive tactic, set up in a hurry, possibly while running down a bank. A correctly fastened harness will be quite tight. Try clipping a krab to a tight harness on a friend's pfd while running along after them over crappy ground. It's really hard. Having a ring to clip to makes life a lot easier and speeds up the set up of a generally time critical rescue.
That's why I have a ring on my pfd and why I advocate their use.

[Canoe_princess]

More often I have set live baits up in anticipation... like when the consequences of someone being slightly off line or missing a boof are a kicking in a hole or on double drops when you don't want anyone going over the second part if they aren't in a boat. IMHO that is 'protection' anything else is 'reaction'. However I agree that the ring could be more useful in a spontanaeous rescue. Don't think I will be taking mine off.

[DaveBland]

Here's my thoughts on the matter. Who do we use live bait rescues on? People who are unable to help themselves (injured, unconscious, etc). So we should ask why would we set up a live bait proactively? That means we're expecting who ever runs the drop/rapid emerging in that state.

I disagree. To a point. That is deffo one scenario, but I can think of features that if someone does end up swimming, then there's a good chance they'll be in need of a hug. Usually with a towback, undercut, cave combo. Live baiting is in itself risky – but if the group is willing, prepared, and ready – it's a lot safer and in my mind often better than a throwline if there's potential for real bad.

I seem to remember watching Sam's Coudren Snout vid the other month and didn't he have someone already set up to live bait half way down?

[Tea Boy Tom]

All fair points and all down to personal choice on the day. However, will a ring detract from a proactive set up? No, as far as I can tell. Will it be beneficial in a reactive set up? Hugely.

[DaveBland]

Wasn't dissin' the ring. Makes sense to have one I guess, but not essential.

[Rdscott]

I know teaboytom is a far more knowlagable experianced and well mannared kayaker than myself, although I doremember hugging him once at the NSR.

And I can see his point onallthe above points.

However on cliping straight to the ring I disagree, metalon metal =NO forme,but thatsmy climbing back ground,same as webbing on webbing.

[-Ginge-]

However on cliping straight to the ring I disagree, metal on metal =NO for me, but thats my climbing back ground

So how do you clip a quickdraw to a bolt? Ooooh controvertial...

Is it not Krab to krab because it can twist and open. A screwgate krab on a ring on webbing isn't going to cause enough twisting to cause fatigue and break metal, the plastic buckle on the front will give first. It's the design.

[Luke13]

Rdscott wrote:
However on cliping straight to the ring I
disagree, metal on metal =NO for me, but thats
my climbing back groun

metal on metal is fine, there has never been a problem with it. how often do you clip nuts to krabs.

[Rdscott]

Metel to metal generates heat, the biggest causeof things like nuts failing other than poor placment or rock breaking,is the wire failing, this is more common on micro nuts,as apposed to sizes 1+,bear in mind that the wires are completly under rated for climbing.

So after 1 factor 2 fallidealyyouwould replace this bit of gear.

Ice on ice creates friction which creats heat. which causes damage this is the same with all matirials.

secondly the more connections the more that can gowrong with the system.

as for asking me about bots and quick draws I dont know, I only boulder and as for alloy to nut wire, I dont know.

[Rdscott]

Rdscott wrote:
However on cliping straight to the ring I
disagree, metal on metal =NO for me, but thats
my climbing back groun

metal on metal is fine, there has never been a problem with it. how often do you clip nuts to krabs.

Shalli takeapic ofsome of my old work kit and prove you wrong, you wouldnt belive how quicka wire cuts through an alloy biner.

[David Fairweather]

In the environment that we're using live bait (in the water), I can't see heat from metal on metal being too big a concern.

realistically, I can't see any disadvantage to keeping the ring on your harness. It certainly makes correctly clipping into the system easier in some situations.

Most paddling shops should have them, otherwise dive shops should stock plenty of stainless O-rings.