Advice on solo canoe

[livefortheriver]

I am looking for a solo canoe, not a fancy whitewater oc1 but a nice, fast touring canoe that can take some gear. Can anyone reccomend one?

[AHPP]

Search/ask on songofthepaddle.co.uk.

The simple option is a Wenonah Argosy because you can easily get one in the UK. If you consider one I suggest you try it for a good few hours before buying. I didn't like it at first but after a bit longer got more used to its quirks.

Other boats (from the US/Canada) could potentially be better for what you want but could be less easily obtainable. You can find links on SOTP to US/Canadian forums (the names of which temporarily escape me). A man called Greg will show you the path.

[GregS]

A man called Greg will show you the path.

I'm always happy to promote solo canoeing... and that extends to "touring"... but choosing a solo canoe is rather like choosing a sea kayak... in that you ideally want something that's appropriate the purpose (touring)... but which also fits you... and which will perform well with the range of loads you have in mind, and at your preferred pace...

AHPP's right: I'm happy to provide pointers to anything that might suit - but the field needs narrowing down!

[livefortheriver]

Im also looking for some mild whitewater

Size wise
Im about 6ft tall
Not very wide around the middle
Prefer kneeling rather than sitting
Max loads I will be carrying about 100kg MAX

Thanks

[tenboats1]

S/H Intrigue / horizon 15 or Reflection 15 and you are sorted. (Reflection is available new)

TB

[GregS]

OK... let's start with whittling down the selection, starting with the observation that at 6' and "not very wide around the middle"... you're probably well set for most solo canoe designs: the folk who struggle tend to be the little folk...

Anyway, whilst you want a touring canoe, you want to do WW, and will mostly kneel. This immediately rules out most of the touring canoes we associate with the Boundary Waters and so on... including a host of Wenonah options (Wilderness, Prism and Voyager)... and gems like the Bell Magic. On the other hand, we're not looking at a canoe for sustained grade II or more... so no need to compromise open-water performance for staying dry through big standing waves. That means we are probably able to ignore the classic Hemlock SRT (composite), plus Novacraft's river tripper, the Supernova and Rx Swift's river tripper, the Raven - though all of those COULD be used for flatwater.

That leaves two obvious routes to consider:

1. Canoes in a direct line of descent from the original Curtis Solo Tripper: lake tripping canoes which are more capable of handling a bit of moving water. The best available this side of the Atlantic would perhaps be the Hemlock Kestrel and Peregrine and the Swift's Osprey (and perhaps Swift's Keewaydin 15). A handful of folk in the UK have the other obvious Solo-Trripper descendantBell Merlin II.

2. Slightly shorter and more river-oriented canoes, more oriented towards the kneeling paddler... ranging from Wenonah's Argosy (the most lake-oriented option I can think of)... through Bell's more river-oriented Yellowstone Solo (which sold OK in the UK, and occasionally available second hand) and Rockstar to Mad River's classic river-canoeing "Guide" (now "Freedom Solo").

Although all North American imports, all of those are available this side of the pond.

Now the practicalities. The bigger of the two solo tripping canoes from Hemlock, the Peregrine, is sized appropriately for someone 6' tall... but has an "efficient" capacity of 150 - 300 lbs, and a maximum capacity of 350 lbs - that's paddler and kit. The next biggest load-hauler would be the Keewaydin 15 (140-290), Bell's Merlin II (160-280lbs) and Swift Osprey (120-260lbs).

Curiously, the shorter, more river oriented Yellowstone Solo has an optimum load range of 160-280lbs. It's the same as the Merlin II because the volume is distributed differently. Wenonah don't provide figures for the Argosy, but if they did, I suspect they'd be similar. Mad River's Freedom Solo might carry fractionally more... but I don't suppose it would be that different. Bell's Rockstar is the version for load-hauling (optimum capacity 160-320lbs).

To get significantly more capacity in a touring canoe, as you suggest you might, you'd be heading to the more specialist options already ruled out (above) - something like the Wenonah Voyager (no rating given, but at 17'6" long x 27.5" beam at the waterline, it's a monster). To more capacity in a river-oriented canoe, you'd be heading to the other more specialist options already ruled out (above) - something like the Swift Raven (a slug on the flats, but with an optimum load range of 180-340lbs for multi-week wilderness river trips in Canada).

[GregS]

To get significantly more capacity in a touring canoe, as you suggest you might...

OK, re-reading... I'm assuming your total load, including yourself, would be 100Kg... so 220lbs (as opposed to that being the load you want to haul): makes more sense - not sure why I thought otherwise last night! If that's the case, you'd appear to be able to take your pick of pretty much all the more compact solos...

The easiest options to find in the UK for mixed lake/river touring would be the Argosy (more lake oriented, widely available new), the Yellowstone Solo (a bit more river oriented, not currently available new) and the Freedom Solo (the most WW oriented of the trio, presumably available).

The other Wenonah options are all available through Richard at Outdoor Active (consider Tuffweave rather than Royalex if going down that road: doesn't cost much more). Some other solos may be available through a UK importer (maybe Mohawk, possibly Esquif Echo)... but those and others (Hemlock, Swift and the rest) are almost all now available the other side of the channel - I can provide contact details.

[wild river]

Hi Greg
The choices of open canoe are huge and all have there advantages and disadvantages.
If you get one of the porspectors you will get a boat that will do all things reasonably well. It will cope with whitewater, can be paddled tandem or solo, can take a sailing rig, can carry big loads or not much atall. Many companies make prospectors. They are all slightly different but are still suitable for most jobs.
The Wenonah prospector is lower and lighter so better in the wind but slightly wetter in whitewater. The Novacraft prospector is heavier and higher sided so not as good in the wind but is drier and more durable. The list goes on
The only other I would add is the Mad River Reflection as a slightly better lake boat than the prospectors
Feel free to contact me directly if you have any questions
Sean

[GregS]

porspectors [...] will cope with whitewater, can be paddled tandem or solo, can take a sailing rig, can carry big loads or not much atall [...] the Mad River Reflection as a slightly better lake boat than the prospectors

Many years ago, designer John Winters digitized the lines of an original Chestnut Prospector did a "reverse engineering" job on a Prospector. He concluded that the boat would be "an easy boat to paddle at speeds [...] below four kilometers per hour, and would "cruise with little effort at about four to five kilometers per hour", and that whilst "somewhat sensitive to weight", and "not offer any special dampening of pitching in steep short seas"... the boat would be "relatively insensitive to increased loading".

In passing, I should add that the low block-coefficient was highlighted as a reason why the Prospector would track "reasonably well despite its rocker" and that the maximum righting moment was found to occur at ~33 degrees: just where you want that figure for secondary stability.

Now the crunch: because hull characteristics vary with changes in loading... Winters had looked at a displacement "typical of most paddling situations", which he estimated at 480 pounds (218 kg) - including kit, boat and... paddlers... both of them!

[GregS]

Putting some numbers on the above, most 16' Prospectors will have a similar optimum load range to the old Bell Chestnut (300lbs-600lbs) and newer Swift (350lbs-600lbs) Prospectors. For comparison, Hemlock's "modern Prospector" is the 16'5" Eagle (400lbs-700lbs). The John-Winters designed Dumoine (archetypal "modern Prospector") comes in with a range of 400-650lbs.

These figures correspond with a waterline displacement of 3" to 5": with a bow AND stern paddler... providing lots of power and positioned well apart for manoeuvring purposes... that's fine.

Paddling these solo can be a fun way to goof around... but to get a real picture of what they are like as touring boats, in British conditions, try crossing an estuary against a 2 knot tide and a moderate breeze (say 20 knots, gusting 25) and kicking up a bit of a chop. A strong tandem pair should make progress... but pity the poor leader who's got a group member paddling solo in such an (almost inevitably under-laden) beast!

[W5RAY]

That's all to much info above for me!
Me?
I would get a Prospector style boat as these will do everything including poling and sailing!
My preferred choice, although not necessarily available easily over here is the Esquif Prospecteur 15' 11" - does everything very well, light enough to carry (maybe between two), flatwater, whitewater, sailing and poling (when you get used to it!), solo and duo tripping, including 7.5 stone dog, plenty of freeboard for all the gear you'll need, pretty dry until you start paddling grade 3's, very manoevrable and holds a straight line when you get the knack!
Best advise though is to test and then test some more! Boats are personal to you and you want to get one that you just gel with! Makes life so much more pleasant on the water!

Ray

[GregS]

I would get a Prospector style boat as these will do everything including poling and sailing!

To the best of my knowledge, all Prospectors are tandems rather than (as sought here) solo boats, and I've yet to see a single one that could be classed (as sought here) as a "fast touring canoe" - for paddling, they're surely classic one trick ponies, and that's downriver!

I'd grant you that they sail well thought...



In my experience, in typical UK conditions (anything between a F2 and a F6 in the same day) most Prospectors will perform better on open water with a decent upwind sailing rig (plus leeboard and rudder) than they will with folk paddling them... and certainly better than they will when paddled solo!

[livefortheriver]

Thanks everyone for your help.

Not looking to do much sailing! Just solo bumpy river paddling

Will head down to brookbank to demo

Thanks

[GregS]

Superb special offer from White Water Consultancy at present:



Offer here.

Comment on the photo:

In my opinion one of the best plastic boats for solo paddling around! Alpine classic grade 3's and multiday trips all in one comfy fast boat. Shame I don't have any pennies and already have a composite boat too

Hard to disagree with that: not my idea of a fast tourer... but will knock spots off any solo-paddled tandem - and just £700!

[W5RAY]

I would get a Prospector style boat as these will do everything including poling and sailing!

To the best of my knowledge, all Prospectors are tandems rather than (as sought here) solo boats, and I've yet to see a single one that could be classed (as sought here) as a "fast touring canoe" - for paddling, they're surely classic one trick ponies, and that's downriver!

In my experience, in typical UK conditions (anything between a F2 and a F6 in the same day) most Prospectors will perform better on open water with a decent upwind sailing rig (plus leeboard and rudder) than they will with folk paddling them... and certainly better than they will when paddled solo!

Greg, just because it may have two seats doesn't mean they aren't good for solo paddling. Fit a knealing thwart and you are good to go. You certainly can't have paddled an Esquif Prospecteur.............'cos if so you would know how good a boat it is! I have paddled my Pro on lakes, flat water, whitewater, short trips, long trips, camping trips, poling and sailing, windy conditions, through waves and in the calm - haven't found anything it can't do that well and as for touring can't say that I've been miles behind everyone else in a their super fast touring canoes and that includes paddling with a 7.5 stone dog that does nothing to propel the canoe forward!
>
>
And the OP wants to do "Just solo bumpy river paddling".

What boat could be better!

I also wouldn't recommend a plastic canoe unless you are a) strong as an ox to lift it on your car roof and/or portage b)you paddle with someone else all the time so they can give you a helping hand carrying/loading it.